Am I Calvinist or Arminian II

[Yeshua1]

You lost me again.

We were discussing your inconsistency in saying that only the elect are given a new heart by God's grace. You changed your position to assert that the giving of a new heart is unrelated to salvation and must've been part of the mosaic covenant. I presented Eze 36 which clearly shows it is very much in the context of salvation as part of the new covenant too. Now you seem to be saying that since it is part of the new covenant in the future, it doesn't apply to the old testament people? Why keep shifting the goal posts?

How do you think the old testament saints were saved? Wasn't it through faith in God alone, having repented unto God? And how do you think they were able to repent unto God with a hardened heart - wasn't it by God giving them a new heart? Why did David pray Psa 51:10 if it was only to the future elect? Where are you going with this?

Again to put it in perspective, do you still hold giving of a new heart is unrelated to salvation for the OT people and if so, do you hold them not to be totally depraved and hardened in their hearts as we are now in the NT?

Whenever God grants a sinner new heart, its unto salvation in Christ, so God completes that which he started, so end result will be eternal life, period.

 

[ivdavid]

Whenever God grants a sinner new heart, its unto salvation in Christ, so God completes that which he started, so end result will be eternal life, period.

We don't get to put the period - Scriptures must do that. So how do you see God giving Saul a new heart? Does he have everlasting mercy then as the elect of God?

 

[Particular]

You lost me again.

We were discussing your inconsistency in saying that only the elect are given a new heart by God's grace. You changed your position to assert that the giving of a new heart is unrelated to salvation and must've been part of the mosaic covenant. I presented Eze 36 which clearly shows it is very much in the context of salvation as part of the new covenant too. Now you seem to be saying that since it is part of the new covenant in the future, it doesn't apply to the old testament people? Why keep shifting the goal posts?

How do you think the old testament saints were saved? Wasn't it through faith in God alone, having repented unto God? And how do you think they were able to repent unto God with a hardened heart - wasn't it by God giving them a new heart? Why did David pray Psa 51:10 if it was only to the future elect? Where are you going with this?

Again to put it in perspective, do you still hold giving of a new heart is unrelated to salvation for the OT people and if so, do you hold them not to be totally depraved and hardened in their hearts as we are now in the NT?

If you are lost, it is not my fault. I have explained how you misunderstand God's work with Saul and God's new covenant for the elect (the Israel of God). I have done my due diligence.
You are consistently creating a presupposition and attempting to find verses, out of context, to prop up your presupposition.
I reject your presupposition.

 

[ivdavid]

If you are lost, it is not my fault. I have explained how you misunderstand God's work with Saul and God's new covenant for the elect (the Israel of God). I have done my due diligence.
You are consistently creating a presupposition and attempting to find verses, out of context, to prop up your presupposition.
I reject your presupposition.

Your due diligence requires you to make clear your position - you first went one way over the giving of a new heart, then switched the opposite way. Which is why I ask what is your current position - do you see the giving of a new heart as pertaining to salvation in the OT as seen in Psa 51:10 and Eze 18:31? A simple yes or no would suffice to move along the argument - that is of course if you wish to continue.

 

[Particular]

Your due diligence requires you to make clear your position - you first went one way over the giving of a new heart, then switched the opposite way. Which is why I ask what is your current position - do you see the giving of a new heart as pertaining to salvation in the OT as seen in Psa 51:10 and Eze 18:31? A simple yes or no would suffice to move along the argument - that is of course if you wish to continue.

My position is very clear. At this point you are playing a game of hide and seek. Game over. You lose. I am done.

 

[ivdavid]

My position is very clear. At this point you are playing a game of hide and seek. Game over. You lose. I am done.

It's sad when you think discussing the truths of God is a petty game where one wins and the other loses. It's very telling regarding your intentions to progress the discussion when you take the effort to write so many words instead of a simple yes/no to my earlier question. Have it your way. I do not wish to have the last word - so say what you will and let it be. I am however willing to engage the argument if you write anything to move it along.

 

[Particular]

It's sad when you think discussing the truths of God is a petty game where one wins and the other loses. It's very telling regarding your intentions to progress the discussion when you take the effort to write so many words instead of a simple yes/no to my earlier question. Have it your way. I do not wish to have the last word - so say what you will and let it be. I am however willing to engage the argument if you write anything to move it along.

Iv, you are trying to spin this game. Scripture has been shared with you. I have no need to beat a dead horse.

 

[utilyan]

yes, but Satan seems to have bound up some of the real saints with this fear of not pleasing God well enough , as they are still trying to get to God by working hard enough, doing well enough etc, I would tend to see this as being saved but confused on what the Gospel message really means!

The next time you burn your toast, ask someone if they can burn it.

The way you perceive God, Satan is out of a Job. #1 You made hims the most evil selfish being. #2 He already made you totally depraved, so there is nothing there to worsen when you are in your worst state.

 

[utilyan]

I heard Dr Vernon mgee teach on Hebrews 6, and he stated something I hasd never thought of before, as he sad not referring to salvation at all, but saying saved people who cannot be renewed to repentance and to good works again, so basically saved, but no eternal rewards!

"saved, but no eternal rewards!"

LOL.

The infatuation with power and obsession with immortality.

You forget the part of the line that states a person is left WORST off then they started. Do we all start heaven bound then?

 

[utilyan]

Since the standard of the Exam from God is perfection, how woud any be able to pass this by themselves?

I couldn't take the exam, I couldn't fail, nor could I go to hell, without GOD's HELP.

You seem to give the reprobate too much credit as being their own CREATORS. You speak of merit.

Tell me one thing that ANYONE in the world merits, credits or is responsible for.

Every sneeze is GOD GIVEN. If Scripture says God has withheld a natural capacity of man then you should have no problem stating it.

You say God allows us only to break the rules.....why can't we break the rule of being required to be bad?


God always gets what he wants....
Tell us does God want and desire for you to sin today or tomorrow? <<<probably the most dodged Calvinist question of All.

 

[Yeshua1]

The next time you burn your toast, ask someone if they can burn it.

The way you perceive God, Satan is out of a Job. #1 You made hims the most evil selfish being. #2 He already made you totally depraved, so there is nothing there to worsen when you are in your worst state.

God did nothing to me, as it was the fault of my spiritual father Adam to got me into my depraved sin natured state!

 

[Yeshua1]

"saved, but no eternal rewards!"

LOL.

The infatuation with power and obsession with immortality.

You forget the part of the line that states a person is left WORST off then they started. Do we all start heaven bound then?

No, all of us start out on the Highway to hell!

 

[Yeshua1]

I couldn't take the exam, I couldn't fail, nor could I go to hell, without GOD's HELP.

You seem to give the reprobate too much credit as being their own CREATORS. You speak of merit.

Tell me one thing that ANYONE in the world merits, credits or is responsible for.

Every sneeze is GOD GIVEN. If Scripture says God has withheld a natural capacity of man then you should have no problem stating it.

You say God allows us only to break the rules.....why can't we break the rule of being required to be bad?


God always gets what he wants....
Tell us does God want and desire for you to sin today or tomorrow? <<<probably the most dodged Calvinist question of All.

You totally misunderstand God's Sovereignty to ask questions like these!

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

I have a question: what if I choose to not be a Calvinist or Arminian?

Why do should I conform to one or the other?

 

[Yeshua1]

I have a question: what if I choose to not be a Calvinist or Arminian?

Why do should I conform to one or the other?

"You gotta serve somebody"

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

"You gotta serve somebody"

A man can’t serve two masters...