Am I the only one disappointed?

[vaspers]

onestand, I respect your opinion about what Jesus' opinion might be.

I don't think Jesus likes this movie at all, I believe He wants to spew it out of His mouth, like lukewarm "believers," but I do respect the fact that you express a different opinion.

We are all still brothers and sisters in Christ, no matter what our opinion of any movie might be.

We cannot let difference of opinion divide us. Pro-Passion or Anti-Passion or Indifferent, we still should band together joyfully and aggressively against the Enemy of All Souls, the Accuser, Satan.

Praise God for independent thought, freedom of conscience guided by God's Word, Unity of the Spirit, and Victory in Jesus!

 

[onestand]

Vaspers...i can live with that thought.

 

[Watchman]

Must agree with Trotter here.
Mature Christians can, indeed, discern between the Biblical and the made up (Roman) elements in the movie, but what about the unlearned?
Now you may say that they should know that it is just a movie. Ah, but it has been said that it is:
"Accurate", "Nothing unbiblical that I can see," and other such statements by those who should know better. This gives the impression that the world (the lost, the unlearned) should take this in a wooden-litteral sense. That is deception.

 

[David Mark]

Originally posted by vaspers:

My question remains: what does Jesus Christ Himself think of this film? If we really do have an intimate personal relationship with Him, it would not be difficult to obtain His opinion.

Interesting thought Vaspers. Take that just one tiny step further.

Jam 1:5 But if any of you lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting: for he that doubteth is like the surge of the sea driven by the wind and tossed.

So what does the Lord think? I should ask him, he lives in Heaven. I don't see anything wrong with that because I am for the most part, a generally stupid man. BTW, I rarely admit that to other men and women.

Dave.

 

[blackbird]

Onestand says that Jesus would put His stamp of approval on this film---

OK---so we are all "critiqueing" this film---some Pro-Passionites and some Anti-Passionites---but we are ALL critiqueing this film through FINITE minds---

Now, enter Jesus on the scene! A man who "knows the thoughts of all men"---a man who is never "surprised" or caught off guard!!

Let us now filter the movie through HIS infallable, eternal mind----and seperate what is Earthly fiction and fable and fabrication from Heavenly fact---and then lets see what remains!!

Yes, I wonder what would remain???

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't think we would be able to see much of it because three hours of it was so shameful that God covered the world in darkness so the world could not see His Son hanging on a cross. Now that shame is put forth for all the world to see on massive movie screens.

Am I way of base with this thought?

 

[Lorelei]

As I have mentioned in other threads, I too was extremely disappointed in this film. For those who say "It is just a movie" and that we should "take out the meat and spit out the bones" I say this. I would not have that much of a problem with this film if it had been advertised as just that, a film about a catholic christ made by Hollywood. This, however, is not the case. They have an entire page dedicated to "church resources" which is at http://www.thepassionoutreach.com/. On this page the banner reads "Perhaps the best Outreach opportunity in 2000 years." It also says it is based on the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but makes no mention of the catholic sources and traditions that it is also based on.

We wouldn't be talking about this movie if everyone was honest and said, "this is only a movie and it is Mel's interpretation of the Passion, not a scriptural account." That isn't the case. I am disappointed and upset because not only the media, but evangelicals are claiming that it is more.

The writer of the Purpose Driven Books said this:

Brilliant, biblical - a masterpiece

Biblical? Hardly.

Read the quote from Billy Graham above on the banner that is on this very website. Everything he sees will be on his mind when he preaches the cross. Does that include Mary's desire to die with Christ?

No, this is not just a movie and the christian community is failing to warn veiwers of the errors within it. Instead they are encouraging it's use for evengelism. That is what I find most disappointing.

~Lorelei

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Read the quote from Billy Graham above on the banner that is on this very website. Everything he sees will be on his mind when he preaches the cross. Does that include Mary's desire to die with Christ?
~Lorelei

I saw the movie and don't remember reading anything in the subtitles that said Mary wanted to die with Christ. You guys are flat out wrong about the exaltation of Mary in this movie. They portrayed her as his mother watching her son being tortured, brutalized, and murdered. She grieves the whole thing just as any mother would be expected to. There is no hint of Mary being equal with Jesus in this movie.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Spirit and Truth]

Lorelei:

The writer of the Purpose Driven Books said this:

quote:
Brilliant, biblical - a masterpiece

S&T:

Are you referring to Rick Warren, the man who hosted the pre screening of the Passion in one of the three locations in the US to try and get evangelical pastors to promote the movie? It appears that many are following the ecumenical illusion for love of mammon. Interesting side note, in his book, Rick Warren sourced the New Jerusalem Bible and another version which is Catholic in nature. He also used the "Good News" and the "message" , CEV and NLT. The only thing he missed , was to quote a religious comic book. I wouldn't listen to Rick Warren on anything. He has clearly demonstrated his "ability" to discern, or lack thereof.


http://www.marianland.com/aut_bibles.html

 

[Spirit and Truth]

JB:

I saw the movie and don't remember reading anything in the subtitles that said Mary wanted to die with Christ.

S&T:

As Mary stared up at the cross with blood smeared on her face and lips, she said:

"Flesh of my flesh"
"Heart of my heart"
"My son, let me die with you"

 

[Jim Ward]

Originally posted by Spirit and Truth:
Lorelei:

The writer of the Purpose Driven Books said this:

quote:
Brilliant, biblical - a masterpiece

S&T:

Are you referring to Rick Warren, the man who hosted the pre screening of the Passion in one of the three locations in the US to try and get evangelical pastors to promote the movie? It appears that many are following the ecumenical illusion for love of mammon. Interesting side note, in his book, Rick Warren sourced the New Jerusalem Bible and another version which is Catholic in nature. He also used the "Good News" and the "message" , CEV and NLT. The only thing he missed , was to quote a religious comic book. I wouldn't listen to Rick Warren on anything. He has clearly demonstrated his "ability" to discern, or lack thereof.


http://www.marianland.com/aut_bibles.html

Let's not forget how often Mr. Warren took a verse out of context and tried to make it say something other then what the verse clearly says.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Spirit and Truth:

"Flesh of my flesh"
"Heart of my heart"
"My son, let me die with you"

I couldn't remember the exact wording, thanks for sharing the exact quote. No, I am hardly flat out wrong. I don't understand why people make up excuses as to why Mary was given such prominence in this film. I hear people saying, "well a mother would feel such strong emotions." If a non-catholic had made the movie there might be a cause for such arguments. But really, a Catholic who BELIEVES that Mary was indeed a co-reedemer and that she IS the Mother of God, a sinless continual virgin, would hardly feel "bad" or need excuses for putting such exaltations in the film. Why else would they be there?

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Mary also said "So Be It" when Christ was arrested. This is only a partial quote, I wish I could remember the rest. It was as if she had a part in this.

Then of course there is Peter who would not let Mary touch him because he was "unworthy." What person other than Christ are we "unworthy" of?

The actress who played Mary was interviewed by Bill O'Reilly. She said this movie is not only about the sacrifice of Christ but it was about the sacrifice of a mother and her son. This is how she played her role.

~Lorelei

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Spirit and Truth:
JB:

I saw the movie and don't remember reading anything in the subtitles that said Mary wanted to die with Christ.

S&T:

As Mary stared up at the cross with blood smeared on her face and lips, she said:

"Flesh of my flesh"
"Heart of my heart"
"My son, let me die with you"

In any kind of presentation, different people will remember different things and be stirred in different ways. I did notice this in the movie, but I saw it as the natural feeling of a mother seeing a child die. I know too well personally that it is realistic. To whatever extent Mel Gibson meant something especially Catholic, the power of such scenes was that they transcended any Catholic doctrinal agenda to portray normal human emotion. A number of people disturbed by such scenes have a tendency to only view them through a particular grid. Doctrinally, perhaps such scenes helped show the Nature of Jesus as completely God and yet completely Man.

Karen

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:
I don't think we would be able to see much of it because three hours of it was so shameful that God covered the world in darkness so the world could not see His Son hanging on a cross. Now that shame is put forth for all the world to see on massive movie screens.

Am I way of base with this thought?

I can't say whether or not you are offbase. I only know that the idea you present is novel, compared to anything I have been taught. Jesus Christ triumphed over the cross; I question the concept that God the Father was ashamed of the cross. The Resurrection was even more invisible. No one except perhaps angels witnessed the actual moment.

Karen

 

[onestand]

I am in no way shape or form Catholic, but I am going to say something here. If we take away the part of Mary's passion and pain over her son dying on the cross and the fact that she knew and believed that she birthed Jesus for this very thing we literally deny the gospel of Jesus Christ all together.

Mary was NOT depicted as anything more than a mere mother grieving over her son. The scene with Peter, COME ON, you have to be kidding me, I can't believe you seriously saw that as him viewing Mary as the one he was unworthy of. Peter was overwhelmed with the guilt and shame in realizing he had just denied the very Saviour he proclaimed he would stick by forever "even to death", he felt so unworthy but it had NOTHING to do with Mary.

Even Mel himself has said this movie is simply from "HIS" viewpoint of the gospel, he's not claiming it as something higher. I also feel it's foolish to believe it can't be used in reaching souls for Christ when the entire movie is about Jesus, flashbacks of his ministry, the pain and suffering he went through for us.

It's called THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST for a reason, it was the passion and love for us that he died. I will not deny there are things left out of the movie and things added...THIS ISN'T scripture...it's a movie BASED on scriptural event, I think that's why people are so uptight about it because they think it should be complete scripture, I don't think it should have to be for God to use it. I also think christians are so anti catholic and scared to death that if someone sees it they're gonna convert to RC. God is far more powerful than that, like it or not the movie has the message of the cross seed in it, and that seed WILL NOT return void.

 

[Spirit and Truth]

onestand:

God is far more powerful than that, like it or not the movie has the message of the cross seed in it, and that seed WILL NOT return void.

S&T:

God said that His Word would not return void, not a movie. Since there was less than five minutes of scripture quoted in the movie, and some of it was quoted incorrectly andmixed with the lines of the actors, I do not think this is applicable.

 

[vaspers]

David Mark, and blackbird: great posts. You both took my suggestion a bit farther than it was written, though I was with you in spirit.

Yes, it is crucial to see all Jesus films, sermons, Chrisitian ministries, books, cell groups, etc. through the eyes of Jesus, not through our own opinions and tastes and likes.

Rick Warren--his 40 Daze of Purse Puss is a joke. He rips off other spiritual thinkers, rarely giving any credit, there is no bibliography or references to other works in an appendix.

Warren claims salvation comes to anyone who "whispers" a little ridiculous prayer "Jesus I believe in you, and I receive you."

No repentance, no godly sorrow for sin, etc. What a joke. Seeker sensitive indeed. The wrath of God against sinful man is offensive to secular people, so skip it.

The Passion is similar. Ridiculous distortions that any serious student of the Bible should abhore and reject as disrespectful, false, demonic, and worthless as evangelical tool.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I can't say whether or not you are offbase. I only know that the idea you present is novel, compared to anything I have been taught. Jesus Christ triumphed over the cross; I question the concept that God the Father was ashamed of the cross. The Resurrection was even more invisible. No one except perhaps angels witnessed the actual moment.

Sorry I was not clear. I didn't mean that God was ashamed of the cross - I think that He mercifully provided a covering for His Son hanging on the cross.

 

[Spirit and Truth]

The presbyterians can see the difference. Why can't some of the Baptist leadership:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=498518