Ambassadors for Christ ?

[HankD]

They are His apostles. You are not an apostle, neither am I, nor Steaver, nor any of those "theologians" who like to teach that all Christians are ambassadors for Christ.

While I agree that this is technically true pinoy, we do however manifest (or should) the image of Christ in these earthen vessels wherever we go and for the reasons of the Scriptures I mentioned above. Also the Spirit of God uses these vessels to continue on in the "Great Commission" (if you will and whether we admit it or not) given to the Apostles to communicate the Gospel, baptise those who believe, gather those believers into local churches and then disciple them in the Word of Christ.

All these tasks were specifically given to the Apostles, yet these things we do as well in the 21st century. Especially as Baptists, we baptise in water in obedience to the command given to the Apostles to teach and baptise those to whom they were sent and make disciples.

Personally, I admit that we most often do the one part (baptise) but leave off the other (disciple) or do it poorly.

Perhaps a better word can be chosen than "ambassador" related to the doing of these other apostolic functions by non-apostles?


HankD

 

[pinoybaptist]

While I agree that this is technically true pinoy, we do however manifest (or should) the image of Christ in these earthen vessels wherever we go and for the reasons of the Scriptures I mentioned above. Also the Spirit of God uses these vessels to continue on in the "Great Commission" (if you will and whether we admit it or not) given to the Apostles to communicate the Gospel, baptise those who believe, gather those believers into local churches and then disciple them in the Word of Christ.

All these tasks were specifically given to the Apostles, yet these things we do as well in the 21st century. Especially as Baptists, we baptise in water in obedience to the command given to the Apostles to teach and baptise those to whom they were sent and make disciples.

Personally, I admit that we most often do the one part (baptise) but leave off the other (disciple) or do it poorly.

Perhaps a better word can be chosen than "ambassador" related to the doing of these other apostolic functions by non-apostles?


HankD

I think you misunderstood, brother. I believe that the term ambassadors for Christ, in principle, applies to true ministers of the gospel. The reason I qualify with the word true is because we do not know who the true ministers are at this point of church history, just as we do not know which is the true church that truly came out of the one founded by Christ, and the only ones right now that we can be sure are true ministers of the gospel are those whom Christ appointed and is on Biblical record to have been appointed by Christ, or the Holy Spirit, and those who are on Biblical record they also appointed or recognized as ministers of the gospel, such as Barnabas, Timothy, and others.

There are still today, in fact,true ministers of the gospel as delivered by Christ to His people. To them rightfully applies the term ambassadors for Christ, which term cannot be applied to all Christians.

:type:

 

[HankD]

I think you misunderstood, brother. I believe that the term ambassadors for Christ, in principle, applies to true ministers of the gospel. The reason I qualify with the word true is because we do not know who the true ministers are at this point of church history, just as we do not know which is the true church that truly came out of the one founded by Christ, and the only ones right now that we can be sure are true ministers of the gospel are those whom Christ appointed and is on Biblical record to have been appointed by Christ, or the Holy Spirit, and those who are on Biblical record they also appointed or recognized as ministers of the gospel, such as Barnabas, Timothy, and others.

There are still today, in fact,true ministers of the gospel as delivered by Christ to His people. To them rightfully applies the term ambassadors for Christ, which term cannot be applied to all Christians.

:type:

Agreed.

HankD

 

[Pistos]

I think you missed the context at all... or you are confused by what you think or believe... or its just me!

So what do you teach or believe, that you are not an ambassador of Christ? being a believer-in-Christ?

Is not Acts 1:8 ...ye are all witnesses unto me... Isn't it the same as we are all ambassadors for Christ? When people look at you or how do they know you, do they see Christ in you? Regarding the law in US prohibiting you to do the will of God in your life, well, did prison-bar withheld Paul and others in serving God? Even us here in Middle East we are probihited to do so, but we never stop! Aren't we witnesses for Christ same as being Ambassadors for Christ? Though the ministers of the Word is the first person, for us an example but not to the intent that we are not obligated to do so the work of an evangelist or soul-winner or Ambassador for Christ.

If I say I'm an Ambassador for Christ --
1. do I need to go to Bible School first to be an Ambassador?
2. do I need to be a minister or pastor?
3. or do I need to be a 'believer-in-Christ' to share the gospel to every creature that I meet?


Is the samaritan woman in John 4 considered an Ambassador for Christ? YES! Whom did she presented to all her neighbors? CHRIST!

Why complicate things while it is just plain and simple, it is true if it is not in the bible don't add it nor if it is there don't omit it. But if there's a pattern concerning things that we should do which is in the Bible, then let's do it. There's no specific rules in building a Church but there is a pattern that we may be able to imitate. So I believe then that everyone that believeth and is saved and is baptized are witnesses, ambassadors, fellow-laborers, fellow-workers, ministers for Christ.

 

[Pistos]

I think you misunderstood, brother. I believe that the term ambassadors for Christ, in principle, applies to true ministers of the gospel. The reason I qualify with the word true is because we do not know who the true ministers are at this point of church history, just as we do not know which is the true church that truly came out of the one founded by Christ, and the only ones right now that we can be sure are true ministers of the gospel are those whom Christ appointed and is on Biblical record to have been appointed by Christ, or the Holy Spirit, and those who are on Biblical record they also appointed or recognized as ministers of the gospel, such as Barnabas, Timothy, and others.

There are still today, in fact,true ministers of the gospel as delivered by Christ to His people. To them rightfully applies the term ambassadors for Christ, which term cannot be applied to all Christians.

:type:

TRUE MINISTERS? well, I believe it is not our concern or problem those who are true or false ministers... Read Mark 9:38-40

38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40For he that is not against us is on our part.

So think now, are you 'really' a true minister or believer?

 

[pinoybaptist]

TRUE MINISTERS? well, I believe it is not our concern or problem those who are true or false ministers... Read Mark 9:38-40

Sir: Never in my post did I talk about false ministers. You added that into the equation. The opposite of true may not necessarily be always false until falsehood is proven or established.
That subject, on the other hand, is worthy of another thread.
If you are interested in pursuing that subject, then please start your own thread, and do not hijack this thread by deflecting the subject.
Prove first that all Christians are ambassadors for Christ, according to the Bible, black and white, plain English, the conclusion of which is unmistakable.
Stay on the subject.

So think now, are you 'really' a true minister or believer?

May I remind you that the rules of this board prohibit insinuating against somebody's status in Christ ?

 

[Pistos]

please don't misunderstood my comments...it is you who encouraged me to comment and I'm not starting anything...

if you insight of true ministers then as usual you are referring to false ministers as well....just review your posts....

don't get angry....but rather answer my queries and take it as a challenge....it is you who started this thread and insinuating those people who teaches that all believers are ambassadors for Christ which by your reference are NOT....

please answer my queries....

and besides, I think, just I think, maybe, I know you in somehow or maybe its me!

 

[pinoybaptist]

Pistos:

I am not insinuating anything. I am outrightly stating that those who teach that all believers are ambassadors for Christ, and state the Bible says so, and quotes Paul, are teaching error and are being unscriptural.

I don't know if your pastor, Mr. Abante, teaches so. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, because I myself used to teach so, and the reason I taught so was because my pastor taught so. Until I paused and started reading the Bible very more closely without fear that I might contradict what my pastor was teaching, and lo, and behold, I read 2 Corinthians 5:20 and even if I stand on my head reading it it just didn't say what they said it said.

From then on I decided that I will not take everything taught by anyone, especially from a pulpit, hook, line, and sinker, and I don't care about the strings of DD's, Th.D's, and whatever D's that come after their name. They mean absolutely nothing if all they do is parrot what they were taught in Bible School and assignments and homeworks.

As for false teachers, if I answer your post about them, then this thread will go off topic, which is why I suggested you start a thread of your own about what I said, just as I started this thread about what Brother Steaver said in another forum.

If you start a thread about what I said and I join that thread then out of respect for you and others I will try my best to stay on topic.

You asked if I was a believer ? Yes, I am a believer.
I believe that in His Utmost Mercy God the Creator of Heaven and Earth wrote down the names of His people in the Lamb of Glory's Book of Life before the foundation of the world. He knew who they were, He called them out by name, and He knew every circumstance of their lives, and He loved them while they were yet unborn, and loved them while they were yet sinners, and sent His Son Jesus Christ to atone for their sins Himself, and the blood shed by His Son Jesus Christ on the Cross was meant for them and them only, and can not be efficacious for others because that blood was shed with a purpose, and that purpose was the redemption of His people.

I lay no claim to being saved because I made the choice, because if God leaves me alone to exercise my choice, I will still be as the brothers of the rich man who will not repent even if someone from the grave testified to them.

I lay no claim to being one of the elect on the basis of anything good in me, because there is nothing good that dwelleth in me, and were it not for the mercy of Almighty God and the Spirit then every imagination of my heart would continually be evil.

All the remaining days of my life and up until the grave I will be entirely reliant on the mercy of God the Omnipotent, Holy, and Only Wise Creator and Savior.

 

[Tom Butler]

Brother Pinoy, some questions:

Do I understand you to say that only those who are appointed by God can be ambassadors, meaning not everybody, but a smaller number of believers?

Would the Great Commission qualify as an appointment?

Are you saying that only those who faithfully represent the King, speak only what he commands to be spoken, and go only where he sends is a true ambassador?

By extension then, are you saying that those who misrepresent the King, speak other than what he has commanded, go places other than where he sends, is not a true ambassador. In other words, those who dilute the gospel, preach a false gospel, or preach other than the words he commands us to preach or simply do not share the gospel at all are not true ambassadors?

These questions are not meant to challenge, but to get a handle on exactly what you mean, and how you define an ambassador.

 

[Pistos]

You make me laugh... Now I learning who you are :tongue3:... This is what my pastor taught me from the word of God... be patient with all men... compare spiritual things with spiritual... don't get personal when people disagree with you...

so back to topic... Do you consider yourself an ambassador for Christ? and please answer the questions of mr.Tom Butler... btw I haven't heard my pastor teaches that all believers are ambassadors for Christ...got ya! I don't know yet his position regarding that verse...

 

[HankD]

You make me laugh... Now I learning who you are :tongue3:... This is what my pastor taught me from the word of God... be patient with all men... compare spiritual things with spiritual... don't get personal when people disagree with you...

so back to topic... Do you consider yourself an ambassador for Christ? and please answer the questions of mr.Tom Butler... btw I haven't heard my pastor teaches that all believers are ambassadors for Christ...got ya! I don't know yet his position regarding that verse...

Dear Pistos, why does it have to be a "got ya"?

As I said in a previous post I believe pinoy is technically correct.
However whenever we speak in His name we speak as the oracles of God.

1 Peter 4
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

As for functional titles :

Ephesians 4
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

HankD

 

[pinoybaptist]

Brother Tom Butler:

Thank you for your input.
Let me attempt to satisfy your questions by starting from the bottom up. You said:"......how you define an ambassador".

Helen, earlier, and I think a few other posters, gave definitions of what an ambassador is. In essence, they say an ambassador is one who is sent to represent someone, or a country, or a kingdom. I concur. Further, dictionary.com defines ambassador as :

am·bas·sa·dor
–noun 1.a diplomatic official of the highest rank, sent by one sovereign or state to another as its resident representative (ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary). 2.a diplomatic official of the highest rank sent by a government to represent it on a temporary mission, as for negotiating a treaty. 3.a diplomatic official serving as permanent head of a country's mission to the United Nations or some other international organization. 4.an authorized messenger or representative.

Surprisingly, dictionary.com also cites the Easton's Bible Dictionary :

Ambassador
In the Old Testament the Hebrew word _tsir_, meaning "one who goes on an errand," is rendered thus (Josh. 9:4; Prov. 13:17; Isa. 18:2; Jer. 49:14; Obad. 1:1). This is also the rendering of _melits_, meaning "an interpreter," in 2 Chr. 32:31; and of _malak_, a "messenger," in 2 Chr. 35:21; Isa. 30:4; 33:7; Ezek. 17:15. This is the name used by the apostle as designating those who are appointed by God to declare his will (2 Cor. 5:20; Eph. 6:20). The Hebrews on various occasions and for various purposes had recourse to the services of ambassadors, e.g., to contract alliances (Josh. 9:4), to solicit favours (Num. 20:14), to remonstrate when wrong was done (Judg. 11:12), to condole with a young king on the death of his father (2 Sam. 10:2), and to congratulate a king on his accession to the throne (1 Kings 5:1). To do injury to an ambassador was to insult the king who sent him (2 Sam. 10:5).
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

If you notice, all these definitions have one common thread running in them: authority.

The authority to represent themselves as ambassadors, the authority invested upon them to invoke the name or sovereignty of the sending power.

It is interesting to me that Baptists, Primitive or not, are big on authority. We rebaptize those whom we consider to have received an alien baptism, because we do not (1) know the church, or the authority that baptized them, or (2) we do not outrightly recognize that authority, yet here we grant authority to those to whom the Bible never granted it.

Let us now examine several personalities in the Bible whom we can rightfully and scripturally call Ambassadors. In the Old Testament, we had Moses of the Hebrews. He was personally called out by Jehovah for that purpose. Jehovah introduced Himself to Moses. Jehovah chose Moses over Aaron, although Aaron was sent along with Moses. He was the ambassador of Jehovah to Pharaoh, in the matter of releasing His people from Pharaoh's grip.
He was Jehovah's ambassador to the Hebrews, tasked with representing Jehovah whose name they had not known previously, and tasked with informing the Hebrews as to Jehovah's laws and will.

In the New Testament, we had:

a. John the Baptist - a man sent from God (John 1:6);

b. Jesus Christ - (John 12:50; John 14:10; John 17:1-4);

c. The Holy Spirit - (John 14:26; John 15:26)

d. The Apostles - (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 16:14-15;Matthew 28:16-20).

e. Paul - (2 Cor. 5:20;Eph. 6:20) and by implication, those who were with him in the ministry, to include Timothy, Barnabas, Luke.

All the above spoke on authority of the Triune God, all the above had their authority affirmed by the Triune God, written down on Scripture and preserved for the learning and admonition of God's people thru the ages (Romans 15:4;

Just as not all Israel can call themselves, or have been called by Jehovah God, to be ambassadors, not all in the churches and certainly not all Christians are called to be ambassadors.

Paul certainly never taught that, and even to say that the Church, as an entity, is an ambassador for Christ, is taking Scripture where it never goes.

I will continue to answer your questions at a later time.
Forgive me, I do not mean to be rude.
It's just that my wife and I at this day happen to have the same day off, and have been invited to dine with a kind and loving Reformed Baptist church in Hamburg, New York, which we attended several times last Fall, pastored by a fine, Godly man, Joe Krieger.

 

[pinoybaptist]

You make me laugh... Now I learning who you are :tongue3:...

I am glad I have made you laugh. Although, really, you don't even have the slightest glimpse up to now of who I am, just as I do not have the slightest idea of who you are. But, I know your pastor, not personally, though. My family and I attended church there for a while, and also at his father's in Tatalon.

so back to topic... Do you consider yourself an ambassador for Christ?

I would expect a software engineer like you to understand by now, and therefore have no need to ask, that I do not consider myself an ambassador for Christ by any stretch of the imagination simply because I do not have the authority to claim such a title.

I concurred, if you noticed, that there are ambassadors for Christ around even today and these are those who preach the true gospel of Christ and represent Him and declare Him in His full glory, power, and sovereignty, but who are these ? I do not know considering the multitudes of 'gospels' around and the various types of 'Christs' being preached.

But just as I understand that there are among those in Christendom who name His Name those who are truly His people, whose names He knew from before the foundation of the world, so there are those who preach His word and proclaim His kingdom who have truly received authority and calling from Him.

and please answer the questions of mr.Tom Butler...

the answers will be forthcoming.

btw I haven't heard my pastor teaches that all believers are ambassadors for Christ...got ya!

Got me ? What did you get from me ?

I don't know yet his position regarding that verse...

You better find out what he teaches about that, and why, and who His authority is. And it better be the Bible, and not some guy with a string of Ph'D's and DD's and ThD's after his name.

 

[Pistos]

But, I know your pastor, not personally, though.

So you do not know him at all :tongue3:

I would expect a software engineer like you to understand by now, and therefore have no need to ask, that I do not consider myself an ambassador for Christ by any stretch of the imagination simply because I do not have the authority to claim such a title.

My being a professional software engineer doesn't count for spiritual understanding,,, as I quote from the word of God.... compare spiritual things with spiritual....

Got me ? What did you get from me ?

It means, you have to calm down,,,when people disagree with you don't get high it is not good for your health :flower:

You better find out what he teaches about that, and why, and who His authority is. And it better be the Bible, and not some guy with a string of Ph'D's and DD's and ThD's after his name.

I'm learning from him through the leading of the Holy Spirit and by the Word of God. I do suggest PLEASE READ 1 Corinthians 2. And as I quote in verse 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.Do you know the mind of Christ? That's why we need the Holy Spirit for understanding. Without His leading we will never know the Will of God in our lives. This is what I understand, no believer CAN fulfill every word & jot of the Word of God but we can be at His mercy do His blessed will through His Spirit.

Consider also your pastor, does he knows everything in the word of God? Is your pastor ALWAYS infilled with the Spirit? Does he perform everything what God's command? Same goes to you. Better find out what you have learned from your pastor is the truth. Do we learn from them?

We must learn from the people who teaches us. Just like what Luke said that they learned from what the Lord Jesus Christ have done (by example) and taught. He even said "Learn of me..." So the human example that we have now are the leaders of our churches. Even Paul said, Be ye followers of me... because he followed Christ (1 Cor. 11:1).

You have your role in that side of the world, as we have also our part in the Middle East. And I believe the grass in mideast is the same as greener in your place.

This my position in this thread AMBASSADORS (2Cor5:20) = WITNESSES(Acts1:8) for Christ.

Have a Blessed New Year to You all...

 

[pinoybaptist]

So you do not know him at all :tongue3:
My being a professional software engineer doesn't count for spiritual understanding,,, as I quote from the word of God.... compare spiritual things with spiritual....

My reference to your profession was not mean to be an insult. I have plainly stated that those who teach that all believers are ambassadors for Christ, and point to the Bible as their reference for that teaching, and Paul as the source of that teaching, are being unscriptural and in error.

Yet you still ask: Do you consider yourself an ambassador for Christ?

I should think one with such a high learning as yourself should immediately discern the other side's position and wouldn't be asking questions which tend to be more "irritating" than challenging ?
I suppose one does that in secular debates, but surely a Christian discussion forum shouldn't have that element when one side is trying to present his point to the other ?

It means, you have to calm down,,,when people disagree with you don't get high it is not good for your health :flower:

I have had about 3,000 posts in these threads. Sure, not all of them were pleasant exchanges, like now, sadly with someone from my own country, but if I were such a person as you said, one who gets "high" when others disagree with me, then I should be dead by now, or no longer posting.

There aren't very many people who agree with me here on my views on salvation and the preaching of the gospel in relation to eternal salvation and missions work, but except for a few blunders, we've remained cordial to each other, and that is because in this board, we do not question the eternal standing of those we discuss with, compared to what you did, you quote a Scripture and then end with a question about whether I am "really" a true believer or not. What exactly do you mean. Just asking ? Or baiting.

I'm learning from him through the leading of the Holy Spirit and by the Word of God. I do suggest PLEASE READ 1 Corinthians 2. And as I quote in verse 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.Do you know the mind of Christ? That's why we need the Holy Spirit for understanding. Without His leading we will never know the Will of God in our lives. This is what I understand, no believer CAN fulfill every word & jot of the Word of God but we can be at His mercy do His blessed will through His Spirit.

Consider also your pastor, does he knows everything in the word of God? Is your pastor ALWAYS infilled with the Spirit? Does he perform everything what God's command? Same goes to you. Better find out what you have learned from your pastor is the truth. Do we learn from them?

Again, these are worthy of a different thread. Start one yourself. And because I am telling you to start another thread doesn't necessarily mean I am angry with you. I just want this thread to stay ON TOPIC. "Does the Bible say ALL Christians are ambassadors for Christ ? Did Paul ever state anywhere in his letters that ALL Christians are to be ambassadors for Christ" ? That is the topic. Stay on it.

We must learn from the people who teaches us. Just like what Luke said that they learned from what the Lord Jesus Christ have done (by example) and taught. He even said "Learn of me..." So the human example that we have now are the leaders of our churches. Even Paul said, Be ye followers of me... because he followed Christ (1 Cor. 11:1).

True, there are those who teach us. I have been a teacher, and I have also been taught. But at the end of the day, there is only one true teacher, and that is the Holy Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit who "brings into remembrance" what Christ has said, and the one who really reads his Bible according to what is written and not according to what Dr. This or Dr. That said is the one who understands.

You have your role in that side of the world, as we have also our part in the Middle East. And I believe the grass in mideast is the same as greener in your place.

You see, these kinds of post are the ones that throw me off. What is the relevance of your role there to my role here and to the discussion ? What is the connection of the grass being as green there as here ?

This my position in this thread AMBASSADORS (2Cor5:20) = WITNESSES(Acts1:8) for Christ.

A position which you should have stated outright. Now back up your position, and show why ALL Christians are ambassadors for Christ, and show why Paul is actually insinuating that, if not outrightly teaching that, and why Ambassadors for Christ is synonymous with witnesses for Christ, complete with Scriptures, and then we can compare spiritual with spiritual, here a little, there a little. And if only to prove to you there is nothing personal here, I will help you. I will start another thread regarding this part of your post. I like good discussions. It helps to determine if Alzheimer's or just plain senility is setting in.