American Revolution

I agree with this sentiment, and believe that Lincoln turned to "free the slaves" as a much better war cry than "bring the states under federal control". That war was all about states rights and this nation lost that war.

 

[inappriate use of the word "God" edited out] I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I AM HEARING

ON THIS BOARD..PURE REVISION...[unwarranted comments edited out]...AND I AM

SHOUTING LIKE JOHN THE BAPTIST ..A LONE

VOICE IN THIS WILDERNESS OF REVISIONISTS.

[ February 22, 2005, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

Bro. James Reed
"Blacks would have had civil rights in the south when the south decided to end slavery."
"
There is a whole range of possibilities between slavery and full civil rights and no reason to assume a complete and immediate transfer between them without outside pressure.

"the wealthy people of the south, those who owned slaves, would soon have realized that more money was to be made in factory jobs with skilled workers, not with slaves on plantations. Therefore, they would have pushed to end slavery and bring the south into the industrial revolution as well due to the money."
"
That was already rather obvious before the start of the war, the response at the time was to push for a more efficient way to harvest and process cotton instead of copying the industrial revolution taking place in the North.

"Slavery ended all over the world very peacably."
"
When it comes to the USA what happens elsewhere in the world for good or ill has proven to be of little relevance.
There is a distinct possibility that the memberstates of the CSA would have degenerated into something like the middle american bananarepublics..

Scott J
"but it is worth noting that the cultures of Africa accepted slavery. The American Indians were tried first but made poor slaves."
"
It is also worth noting that the reason the indians made lousy slaves was that in the period they were 'tested' they dropped like flies because they were being exposed to diseases that were completely new to them.

 

Please refute what I said instead of trying to shout me down.

Much of my info came from my Military History class I took at a state university.

FWIW, Lincoln didn't really know what he would do with the slaves. The northern whites didn't want them. Disruption of the southern system of slavery was certain to displace almost all slaves. Leaving them without home, property, or significant skills/education.

Lincoln had one overriding objective- to reunite the Union. Everything else was always subordinate to that goal to include emancipation.

 

Lincoln apparently came to believe that God would let him reunite the Union if he ended slavery.

 

Pure righteous indignation on my end because
of the enormous spinning of history and
dilution of how evil and inhumane slavery was.

the [Inappropriate use of the word "God" deleted] was correct on my part because
for me inside my spirit it is shocking to hear
what I am hearing...knowing the stench of slavery
got to Gods nostrils.

I do believe we should temper military history
with a good portion of black history to find
balast.

The moderator please write me a personal note
before you edit my posts so we can discuss it
I am only a nano second away It really would
be brotherly of you...and please chime in, you
opened this can...I hope you are truly fair
and believe as the SBC authourity believes that
slavery was inhumane..of course you will
obey scripture and submit to that authority.

sincerely

Aslanspal

[ February 23, 2005, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

Hmmm...I seem to recall that He allowed and regulated the practice in Old Testament Israel. He did not tell them not to engage in the practice.

 

At the risk of a few on this board to claim I'm endorsing slavery, I also would like to see some scriptural basis for this very strong assertion of how God feels!

 

For starters, the SBC is a convention/association, so it has no authority.

Secondly, what scripture or biblical principle is slavery violating?

Thirdly, I know of a time when the SBC was humming a different tune, so, in your view, was it okay for member churches to hold onto slavery under the "authority" of the SBC saying it was okay back then?

Lastly, before I am attacked, I am not a supporter of slavery, and I believe that it was one of the bleaker spots on the page of wrongs committed by the U.S., but for those people and at that time it was a pretty well accepted practice and, not living in their time, I can not pass judgement against those people, slaveholder or not.

 

Phillip
"The Southern Baptist Convention does NOT have authority over any church or person. The convention is simply a place and organization to pool money to provide both missionaries and theological seminaries."
"
Good thing too considering that the SBC started out as a convention of those baptistchurches who thought that baptistmissionaries ought to have the right to keep slaves (not that any baptist missionary on earth has ever had the funds to do so, making it completely pointless).
And let's not forget that charming episode a few decades ago when the SBC endorsed abortion.

"good ole Abe Lincoln actually had a few slaves for a period of time."
"
Nope.
The US presidents that were slave owners are Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Tyler, Polk, Taylor, Johnson and Grant.
Honest Abe had relatives who were slave owners but did not own any himself.

To all those who claim that slaves were treated well, because that is in the best interest of the owner.
It was Cato the elder who first pointed out that skimping on the maintenance of one's slaves, working them to death and buying fresh ones afterwards was more cost effective than treating them well.

 

Remember it was those conservatives who were in favor of slavery.

It was those conservatives who fired Whitsitt from Southern Seminary for teaching exactly what the conservatives teach today about Baptist history.

Not too many years ago the chairman of the trustees at SWBTS was caught shacking up with ladies in his church. He was a part of the conservative resurgence.

As far as I am concerned the whole bunch are rotten. Sometime just read any of the gossip papers of the state SBC's and read the national SBC news. How can anyone read that trash and not say something. I will never forget the first time I saw such trash. The mailman knew more what was going on and he was not a Christian.

Why would the SBC post pictures and publsih it in their papers of large money givers at their seminaries and Baptist schools? Why? It is wrong!!! It is in violation of the principles Jesus taught. Just read the gospels

 

If you read about the dispute between the northern and southern Baptists the final straw was over slavery.

Remember what Henry Blckaby said a few months ago to the SBC?

One of the ten commandements says that you should not steal. American slavery was about stealing people for the advantage of the slave owner. It is nothing at all like slavery in scripture.

 

Philip
"I think the stories of the SBCstarting out aas aa convention who thought that baptist missionoaries ought to have the right to keep slaves is all blown out of proportion."
"
It is interesting that the baptist churchhistorian gb93433 mentioned, Whitsitt (the one who got fired from his position at the SBC's Southern Seminary for teaching a thruthfull version of baptist origins) would have agreed with me.

"I suggest you cover your history on the SBC a lot better."
"
My knowledge of the SBC is more than o.k. for a girl living on another continent.

 

Phillip if you could go back in time
lets say to a border state like Kentucky
who would you fight for

Confederacy c.s.a.

or

Union u.s.a.

answer from your heart.


Phillip you started this post shouldn't it
have been on the history boards.

another thing Phillip you will not submit
to the SBC and its letter of apology on
slavery ..would you submit to your pastor
if apologized for the inhumaity of slavery
and the grief it caused God..his creation
being beaten down.

Lord have mercy on us all( the word mercy
in greek and hebrew means to actually try
to place yourself in the shoes of the one
who is suffering)

slavery was evil period..and of course it got
to Gods nostrils..who doubts that!

 

There were instances of this. There were also instances of very benevolent relationships... almost parental.

I am not justifying slavery at all. It was based on the idea that blacks were not equal in God's sight. But we shouldn't buy into the historical revisionism that says all slaves were always abused and completely inhumane.

We shouldn't temper anything. We should accept the truth wherever the evidence leads.

My military history books were very well researched and referenced and written without a politically correct bias.

"Black history" starts with the implication that it is somehow different than "history". The history of blacks is marred by racism and cruelty quite enough in reality to not warrant the overemphasis of only this part of history.

A proper perspective on how prevalent and frequent the real abuses were is imperative to giving an accurate view of history... as is the relevance of slavery to the arguments of those who lead the political factions prior to the division.