An abortion thread

[Speed Gracer]

Murdering babies makes me sick, I can hardly believe you support it

I hardly said that i supported it. Im against it but i believe the women, not the men, should have a choice if in a difficult situation. I never said that it would be right to abort but that should left up to the woman whose life is being jeopardized.

 

[Speed Gracer]

"For the wages of 'sin' is death". If the baby has no sin, why would God let them die? It seems to contradict His Word. I have no explanation for this, as neither do you. Obviously.

 

[Speed Gracer]

God has the right to do whatever He wants

Translated: I don't know

 

[TexasSky]

If abortion was legal years ago we probably wouldn't have the following people:

(Information from famous.adoption.com and meets fair use requierments of being far less than 25%).

Louis Daniel Armstrong "Satchmo". Born in poverty to parents who separated when he was born, raised by a grandmother, and spend years in a home for waifs.


Jimmy Baca, poet. Parents abandoned him. He was raised by a grandmother.

Edgar Wallace, aka Dick Freeman, writer with over 173 novels, 40 plays and 25,000,000 sales to his credit. Born to an unwed actress, fostered by a couple that already had 10 children.

Oprah Winfrey, raised by her grandmother for the first 6 years of her life. Then passed around between her parents.

George Herman Ruth (Babe Ruth). His parents never had time for any of their children and George lived on the streets until his parents handed him off to an orphanage when he was 7.

Faith Daniels, Television Journalist, the child of rape. Her mother gave her up for adoption. She was one of the youngest news anchors in television history.

Frederick Douglass, advisor to Abraham Lincoln and an abolutionist. Born to a slave woman and a white man.

Jack Nicholson, actor. Born to an unwed teen mother and a father who abanonded them, raised by a grandmother with his mother pretending to be his sister.

Willie Nelson's mother abandoned him at 6 months, and he was raised by his grandparents.

Scott Hamilton - Olympic Gold Medal Skater - not sure why he was left for aboption, but he was only 6 weeks old when he was adopted and at the time they thought he was suffering from a combination of cystic fibrosis and Schwachman-Diamond Syndrome. They were wrong.

Faith Hill was the child of unmarried parents who gave her up for adoption.

Alexander Hamilton, member of the US Continental Congress, and aide to George Washington is an illegitimate child. His father was a trader, his mother was married to someone other than his father.

Ann Holmes, former director of National Housing and Town Planning Council, and two-time canddiate for a seat in Parliament is the child of an unwed mother and an American father who was placed up for adoption.

R. David Thomas, a member of the board of St. Jude's, and winner of the Horatio Alger Award, was given up for adoption at birth.

 

[TexasSky]

It is Exodus 21. My error.

 

[Speed Gracer]

TexasSky, Of coarse they can succeed in life. Unfortunatly, the vast majority do not.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />God has the right to do whatever He wants

Translated: I don't know </font>[/QUOTE]Take it however you want. "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord," is how Job responded. Thats good enough for me.

Nothing justifies the murder of a child and your red herring debate tactics do nothing to resolve the issue.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
TexasSky, Of coarse they can succeed in life. Unfortunatly, the vast majority do not.

What a prejudicial statement. Can you prove your point that the vast majority of these children are worthless failures and not worthy of a chance to live?

 

[TexasSky]

Okay, this isn't something I intended to share on this board, but I'm going to be blunt here.

I was raped. For those of you who would like details - I was trying to protect a woman from an abusive boyfriend and helped hide her. He wanted to "teach me a lesson" for interfering.

There was no child as a result, ~but~ I had many days after that night when I wondered if there would be. I was a young college student, a Christian, a person with dreams of the United States Senate. I was a virgin until that night.

So, if anyone had a reason, based on rape, to scream, "This could mess up my life if there is a child," I had it.

BUT - - while I waited out the days and weeks ahead, I knew that God was watching over me. I knew that IF God allowed a child to be born of that experience it would be difficult to carry it to term, difficult to raise it, but - - it would also be a very special child blessed by God. It would be living proof that God can take all evil and turn it to good.

So, I get a bit angry when I hear people who have NOT been raped, use rape as an excuse to murder to children.

To me, that is a coward's excuse.

A selfish excuse.

A ungodly, unholy, satanic excuse.

It is born purely and totally from selfish reasoning.

"I don't want to remember that I was raped."

What nonsense. You can NEVER forget a rape.
You can, with the help of God, forgive it, but you can NEVER forget it.

"I don't want a reminder around that I was raped."

How about a reminder you lived through it? How about a reminder God can do anything with His infinite power? How about giving it up for adoption to one of the millions of parents who go to bed begging God for a child?

"I shouldn't have my life messed up by a child."

The rapist already messed up your life. Why should the child pay the price?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thank you Texas for sharing a very painful experience with us. I admire yoru courage is doing so.

 

[TexasSky]

Speed Gracer,

The vast majority of abortions are under taken by failures in life. Should we murder them?

 

[TexasSky]

What if - - -

Moses' mother had decided to kill him instead of hide him in the reeds?

What if Mary had decided to abort the Christ child instead of face the public and Joseph with her news?

 

[Filmproducer]

Texas Sky I admire you for your courage in sharing your experience, and also for the courage you displayed when the event happened. I sincerely hope that your testimony and compassionate understanding of this situation leads women, facing this situation to do the right thing, and most importantly to find God.

 

[TexasSky]

In all honesty, I think it helped me that I knew the story of my grandparents and my parents.

My grandfather and his brother used to joke that during the great depression they were newly weds, and that they bragged to all their friends that they would never have children until they could afford them. They put shovel's on their backs and walked from their small town to the big city to get work building a dam. That "walk" is a good 1 1/2 hour drive by car at 60 MPH today.

When they got home they found out they'd both conceived children before starting out on their trek. My grandfather had 3 kids in all. His brother had two. They would ovingly refer to them as "God's joke."

My other grandparents talked about having been married exactly one month when they learned they were going to be parents, and their fear they couldn't care for a baby and about what the town would think.

When my parents learned that I had been conceived it was just after having lost their home, and my Dad's job, to a flood.

I have a cousin I love with all my heart - she was born to a diabetic mother who was almost 40 when she conceived. There were concerns for the Mom's health, concerns for the baby's. .. . . .

There are a LOT of people that I loved dearly in my life who might not ever have been born if Roe vs Wade had been passed 50 years earlier.

For every human being I meet who says, "Yes, my parents admit I was planned," I meet 20 who say, "My parents admit I was a surprise."

 

[padredurand]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
C4K, there is nothing brutal about extracting the sperm and egg from a woman. It doesn't form a fetus till the 8th week.

I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
(Psalms 139:14-16 NASB)



A child of rape, a child of abject poverty, a child of a wild weekend of decadent behavior, a child unplanned or one unwanted is yet a child indeed. Speed Gracer, you may believe the lie that says a child is an unviable tissue mass until (insert favorite point of viability) but our Creator would dispute it. I believe the Psalmist proclaims that God knew us before the sperm and egg. How could it not be anything but brutal?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
If the baby has no sin, why would God let them die?

We all sinned in Adam. Therefore, none of us are born, or conceived, innocent of sin.

Romans 5:12-14 (ESV)
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— [13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. [14] Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

1 Cor. 15:22 (ESV)
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
C4K, there is nothing brutal about extracting the sperm and egg from a woman. It doesn't form a fetus till the 8th week.

While a fetus may not be the same thing as a viable baby in some people's eyes, it is a living thing.

I know that you didn't mean to be flippant here or mean to imply that there was a separate sperm and egg after 8 weeks.

But lest you give someone the wrong information, let me correct your view of biology.

Long before 8 weeks, there is a separate and distinct heartbeat from the unborn child.

A separate sperm and egg have long since been gone. The moment that the tail of the sperm breaks off inside the egg and male DNA deposits itself and bonds itself miraculously with female DNA, then life has begun.

And the mother won't even know that for quite some time. In fact, if you will pardon me for being crude, she may still even have the "flush" to her face of the sexual experience the day or night before and may not even REMOTELY consider the fact of pregnancy but may be considering another...well....pardon my crudeness.

Some women are pregnant, don't know it, and their bodies naturally "expel" the zygote. They never even know it.

A separate and distinct heartbeat long before 8 weeks.

A separate and distinct DNA structure that is dividing into two initial cells, then 4, then 8....

That's enough for me to accept as life.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Johnv]

If memory serves correctly, an individual heartbeat starts at about 4 weeks. Brain activity starts at about 8 weeks.

Regardless of one's views on abortion overall, it cannot be denied that it is a sentient being once brainwaves are present, and an elective abortion from this point on would be unwarranted.

 

[bapmom]

Originally posted by Speed Gracer:
TexasSky, Of coarse they can succeed in life. Unfortunatly, the vast majority do not.

and what definition of "success" are you using? The vast majority of ALL of us never "make it" financially into the truly wealthy status of life....does this mean we aren't successful?

And since when do we start to pre-judge a child's quality of life, or success rate, based on his parentage? And even if we were able to accurately judge their future, why is that a justification for murdering the child?

Texas, I want to thank you for your testimony too. I personally have met several people who had themselves been the results of rapes, and while some may not call them "successful" according to the world's standards, they were fine, upstanding people who loved and were loved in return throughout their lifetime.

 

[LadyEagle]

Im against it but i believe the women, not the men, should have a choice if in a difficult situation.

What about the baby's choice?