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An Answer to a Question
- Thread starter robt.k.fall
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I'm not talking about fighting it. I'm talking about doing NOTHING but spending every waking minute it seems on KJVO forums all over the internet posting copy and paste answers that we've all seen hundreds of times before! Do these people have nothing else constructive to do for the Kingdom of God? I've seen the very same people arguing the very same points for YEARS upon YEARS, but I really don't think I've ever seen ONE person change their mind either way! So, you all can call it "fighting KJVOism" I call it silly bickering and one upmanship contests that do more TO HARM the body of Christ than being KJVO will ever do. Go read some of the posts on other forums! If those are Christians, they should be ashamed of themselves! NASTY comments, ridicule, and making fun of other Christians. This forum is kindergarten compared to others where roby and logos post. As I said, they seem to DELIGHT in demeaning others. THAT isn't Christlike either, and THAT upsets me more than KJVO does. You wanna bash people for being KJVO, while going against the Words of Christ Himself when He says we are to LOVE one another? LOVE is hardly what I see from people like Roby and Logos on the other forums. They are allowed to get away with it over there, and trust me, if you read the posts they put up you'd feel like me. Frankly, I'm SICK of it all, and those who seem to do nothing else but try and "out do" someone else on an internet forum. I'm 62 years old, been in church since I was a baby, and to tell you the truth, the ONLY place I've even seen the KJVO problem come up is on internet forums like this one. That's why I believe it's not the "problem" you on here make it out to be. I find much more of a "problem" with Roby's belief that God created a whole other race of people apart from Adam and Eve, but that just seems to get swept under the rug. If you want to call what I see going on in this forum as "fighting KJVO", more power to you, but I call it just FIGHTING for FIGHTING's sake! I'm sure God is very pleased! :BangHead:
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Personal attacks on the faith and honesty of believers who disagree with KJV-only opinions is very common.
Presenting sound evidence and pointing out the actual problems with unproven and incorrect KJV-only claims and accusations in love for the truth and for Christ is not going against the words of Christ. I seek to speak the truth in love.
Baptist4life, where is the sound proof for your accusations that I am supposedly bashing and demeaning believers by pointing out the truth when they make incorrect claims?
You seem to be the one who is seeking to bash and demean me.
Are you suggesting that false claims should be unanswered, that use of fallacies should not be pointed out, and that use of unrighteous divers measures should be accepted?
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
For me the "fight" was over YEARS ago....
The anti-KJVO'ers on this board and others are classic hobby-horse riders. Reading their lame arguments and so-called "evidence" that does nothing but highlight supposed errors in the Word of God (KJV) is counter-productive to instilling confidence in the authority of God's Word. I would also note that there is rarely ANY criticism leveled at the most popular Modern Versions. The attacks are most always leveled at the KJV and its adherents who love and believe in the absolute authority of the Book of books. I would also note that it has been my observation over my years of participating on the BB forum that most of the people who adhered to a stalwart belief in the authority and accuracy of the KJV wound up getting BANNED from the board. They, like many before them would finally get fed up with "the dance" and quit playing nice and call a spade a spade and truly speak their opinion about the Bible- detractors. One,two,three...they were outta here! Dr.Ach was the most recent notable example that I can think of. He had more wisdom and Bible knowledge in his left big toe than most anybody else I can think of here. The deck here is stacked. Any real evidence to the contrary on this matter would never be tolerated for long because it would not be "politically-correct " to go against the default position of the Board. I have seen PLENTY of solid evidence for the KJV position posted on here over the course of time but because this forum, by its very nature is a scrolling discussion, it gets "lost" quickly and the posters of it tend to get "bounced" rather quickly when they dare to "touch a nerve".
Of late, I have chosen to recede into the background because it is pointless to carry on such a useless argument. I believe my KJV IS the Word of God. I do not acknowledge that there are ANY mistakes or errors in it. I will not entertain anyone telling me that my Bible contains errors. Ya'll can have all the fun you wish...but I'm done here. This ain't my kind of playground...too many bullies here. Ya'll have fun picking this post apart (I'm sure you will)...but don't expect any further response from me on this subject.
Bro.Greg
The anti-KJVO'ers on this board and others are classic hobby-horse riders. Reading their lame arguments and so-called "evidence" that does nothing but highlight supposed errors in the Word of God (KJV) is counter-productive to instilling confidence in the authority of God's Word. I would also note that there is rarely ANY criticism leveled at the most popular Modern Versions. The attacks are most always leveled at the KJV and its adherents who love and believe in the absolute authority of the Book of books. I would also note that it has been my observation over my years of participating on the BB forum that most of the people who adhered to a stalwart belief in the authority and accuracy of the KJV wound up getting BANNED from the board. They, like many before them would finally get fed up with "the dance" and quit playing nice and call a spade a spade and truly speak their opinion about the Bible- detractors. One,two,three...they were outta here! Dr.Ach was the most recent notable example that I can think of. He had more wisdom and Bible knowledge in his left big toe than most anybody else I can think of here. The deck here is stacked. Any real evidence to the contrary on this matter would never be tolerated for long because it would not be "politically-correct " to go against the default position of the Board. I have seen PLENTY of solid evidence for the KJV position posted on here over the course of time but because this forum, by its very nature is a scrolling discussion, it gets "lost" quickly and the posters of it tend to get "bounced" rather quickly when they dare to "touch a nerve".
Of late, I have chosen to recede into the background because it is pointless to carry on such a useless argument. I believe my KJV IS the Word of God. I do not acknowledge that there are ANY mistakes or errors in it. I will not entertain anyone telling me that my Bible contains errors. Ya'll can have all the fun you wish...but I'm done here. This ain't my kind of playground...too many bullies here. Ya'll have fun picking this post apart (I'm sure you will)...but don't expect any further response from me on this subject.
Bro.Greg
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
One Last Thing....
For the record....I am not a "Ruckmanite" (the Doc is too mean for my tastes), I've never even read one of Gail Ripplingers books and have no idea what she teaches or believes (the fact that SHE is assuming the role of a teacher of MEN is enough to scare me off)...and though in my early years I did "like" Dr. Hyles preaching, any confidence I had in him was destroyed by the moral indiscretions (among other things) that came to light in his later years. I've had more than my share of preachers that have violated my confidence over the years. Dr. Bob Gray of TBC in Jacksonville was my Pastor for several years and most here would probably know how THAT ended up. The point is....I put NO MAN on any kind of pedestal anymore. We are all made of this vile flesh and subject to all manner of wickedness. My confidence is in my God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Holy, Perfect, Infallible, Inerrant, Preserved Word. That...and that alone will get me safely Home. I'm scared for anybody that makes it some kind of career to point out mistakes, (supposed) errors and problems with God's Word.
I will say in closing this that the teachers I have the most confidence in about Bible matters are men like D.A.Waite, David Otis Fuller, Edward Hills, David Cloud and James W. Knox. I think they are sound, level-headed men who have demonstrated a fidelity to the Lord and His Word. I think a King James Bible, a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and a good Websters 1828 edition English Dictionary are all one needs to do an accurate and fulfilling study of God's Word. I believe the MV's may "contain" much of the Word of God but I believe them to be flawed. With that said....I am now done. Ya'll have a nice argument...I AM outta here now.
Bro.Greg
For the record....I am not a "Ruckmanite" (the Doc is too mean for my tastes), I've never even read one of Gail Ripplingers books and have no idea what she teaches or believes (the fact that SHE is assuming the role of a teacher of MEN is enough to scare me off)...and though in my early years I did "like" Dr. Hyles preaching, any confidence I had in him was destroyed by the moral indiscretions (among other things) that came to light in his later years. I've had more than my share of preachers that have violated my confidence over the years. Dr. Bob Gray of TBC in Jacksonville was my Pastor for several years and most here would probably know how THAT ended up. The point is....I put NO MAN on any kind of pedestal anymore. We are all made of this vile flesh and subject to all manner of wickedness. My confidence is in my God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Holy, Perfect, Infallible, Inerrant, Preserved Word. That...and that alone will get me safely Home. I'm scared for anybody that makes it some kind of career to point out mistakes, (supposed) errors and problems with God's Word.
I will say in closing this that the teachers I have the most confidence in about Bible matters are men like D.A.Waite, David Otis Fuller, Edward Hills, David Cloud and James W. Knox. I think they are sound, level-headed men who have demonstrated a fidelity to the Lord and His Word. I think a King James Bible, a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and a good Websters 1828 edition English Dictionary are all one needs to do an accurate and fulfilling study of God's Word. I believe the MV's may "contain" much of the Word of God but I believe them to be flawed. With that said....I am now done. Ya'll have a nice argument...I AM outta here now.
Bro.Greg
jonathan.borland
Active Member
Do you think it's okay for everyone to say this about his own Bible, even if it's not the KJV? Do you think the KJV translators were supernaturally preserved from making mistakes more than all other Christian translators in the history of the world?
"lame arguments" is hysterical. If it were so lame, then why are there no Biblical scholars today who believe in KJVO? These are the men and women who have studied the Scriptures, studied the languages, have fully understood facts of it all - and do not believe that the KJVO is the only Word of God for mankind? That says a lot to me.
That is because no one is claiming the "modern versions" are the only Bible to use. So there is no need to criticize them. NO one is criticizing the KJV but instead the false belief that it is the only Bible that is valid.
It has nothing to do with being politically correct but instead has to do with lying, name calling, and breaking the rules of the board.
That's fine and I agree with you that the KJV is the Word of God just as much as my ESV is. However, they are NOT without error (and that has been proven over the years) and God still uses it in a very mighty way. I praise Him that He can use imperfect me for His glory and He can use our imperfect attempts at bringing His word to the people to bring about His glory as well.
While you may not follow Ruckman or Riplinger, your arguments are filled with their statements, I'm sure. They have done more to damage the Word than even many of the cults. At least the cults clearly attack God - but these two have attacked God's people and as such attack God but it is more hidden. That's so extremely sad. But I guarantee you that you use their arguments.
MMRRPP! WRONG!
First, our arguments have NOT been refuted. Not one KJVO has argued against the man-made, cultic, dishonest origin of the KJVO myth, nor the fact that it has absolutely no Scriptural support.
So, who's stopping you or any other KJVO from doing so? And usually, when some KJVO author does so, it gets shot down by TRUTH.
The reason for that is that KJVOs try to LIMIT GOD to just the KJV, and cast aspersions upon all other English versions-aspersions that are almost always FALSE. plus, many KJVOs falsely claim the KJV is perfect, so we Freedom Readers prove to them that it's NOT.
From what I've seen since the year 2000 is that they brought it on themselves.
That's cuz, in their frustration from lacka evidence to support their false doctrine, they often crossed the line between constructive disagreement and outritght flaming ad-hominem, questioning others' salvation, etc. Again, THEY BROUGHT THE BAN UPON THEMSELVES!
He was more-fulla baloney than Oscar Meyer, often attacking the messenger insteada the message. he's done the same thing on other boards.
But we've seen plentya KJVOs not accept SIMPLE TRUTH, such as the fact that God did not retire in 1611 from superintending His word, that there are many accurate English Bible translations, not just one, that the KJV DOES have proven goofs, the KJVO myth is drawn from a CULT OFFICIAL'S book, which was plagiarized by two dishonest authors, and that most of the salient points of the KJVO myth are FALSE.
ACTUALLY, it appears you've "receded' cuz you have no evidence nor proofs for your pro-KJVO arguments, but don't wanna admit it.
So do I. I've never said otherwise. The prob arises when a KJVO claims exclusivity for the KJV & that no other English translation is valid.
Typical KJVO blind-eye. There's been a TON of evidence posted PROVING "Easter" in the KJV's Acts 12:4 is a goof-that "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10 is a poor rendering-that "thou shalt not KILL" in Ex. 20:13 is a VERY-poor rendering, etc. etc. but you REFUSE to accept the CLEAR EVIDENCE that's been presented here.
You've been bringing a knife to a gun fight & it's caught up with you. Hopefully, the HOLY SPIRIT will show you the TRUTH-that the KJVO myth is phony as a Ford Corvette. 'Tis fine if you wish to go on using the KJV alone yourself, but SHAME ON YOU if you tell someone else using another version or versions that "Youse dont got no REEL BIBUL thar, Sunny!"
Yep! "and Cain sho nuff married of a them thar "new people" that God done gone and created cuz Cain ain't had nobody to marry up wit!" :thumbs::tongue3:
Stop attempting to derail the thread.
But you've picked up some of their teachings from somewhere, as you've shown in past posts. And virtually ALL KJVO stuff comes from those first three boox that started the KJVO myth, whether later-generation KJVOs will admit it or not.
And those "indiscretions" have been proven by solid evidence. Glad to see you turned from him.
True. So, you should kick the KJVO myth from your pedestal as well; after all it's ENTIRELY MAN-MADE.
It's not God's actual word that has booboos...it's in the MAN-MADE TRANSLATIONS of it. All translations are God's perfect word handled by imperfect men, simple as that.
IMO, you have misplaced confidence. Dr. Waite is head-over-heels devoted to his "Dean Burgon Society", an org that, if Burgon were now alive, that he wouldn't join. Dr. Fuller was one of the daddies of the KJVO myth; much of his book is copied from 7TH DAY ADVENTIST Dr. Ben Wilkinson's book, and he deliberately failed to acknowledge Dr. W's CULT AFFILIATION while copying from him! Hills repeated much of the original KJVO jive, repackaging the same ole junk in a new dumpster. Cloud has been proven to be a "Cloud without rain", repeating that some ole KJVO garbage, but at least he stands against Riplinger's hooey. The best of the bunch is Knox, but he, too, has the error of being KJVO.
They're a good START, but it's a lot simpler to just have God's word in one's OWN language.
But you have NO PROOF that many of them are "flawed". You're mostly GUESSING. It's attitudes such as THIS-criticism without proof or evidence-that brings harsh salvos down upon KJVOs' heads.
Now, with all due respect, lemme say your attitude toward other English BVs is shaped by the false KJVO myth, whether you wanna admit it or not. You've repeated many of the false arguments from that myth. I'm guessing you picked'em up from those authors you say you have confidence in. Now, where do you think THEY got their KJVO view from? Why, from those same boox that started KJVO to begin with! that's obvious, as you've mentioned the false "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" that comes straight outta Dr. Wilkinson's book!
I hope you take time to STUDY the KJVO myth closely, for origin and veracity, and study it IN DEPTH. Just glossing over it won't reveal its false subtleties and nuances too quickly. now, while I'm not suggesting you switch Bible versions, I hope you learn THE truth that GOD IS NOT LIMITED to just the KJV in English.
But know ye this, for a truth...THE KJVO MYTH IS FALSE! No matter how many times someone sez differently, that FACT won't change! we have posted its MAN-MADE, CULTIC, DISHONEST beginning, and no KJVO has shown us one thing from GOD that supports KJVO. So, if you choose to leave the discussion for lacka evidence, have a nice day!
God Bless,
robycop3
An' B4L pertends she aint no Kay Jay Vee Oh whil she AM one.
Pointing out hypocrisy is not derailing the thread.
We fight the KJVO myth so hard cuz we KNOW it's FALSE. We don'e GUESSit is-it's been PROVEN, by its MAN-MADE origin and total lacka Scriptural support.
False doctrines have NO PLACE in Baptist circles, and KJVO is as false as any! Unfortunately, the KJVO myth is often pinned to IFBs, while officially, few IFB groups subscribe to that trash.
And YOU have no roomta talk about anyone going from board to board as YOU do so also, defending some KJVOs while pretending not to be KJVO yourself. FOR SHAME!
I repeatedly told you on several boards that I was open to any explanation of the origin of Cain's wife that DIDN'T INVOLVE INCEST, and you failed to respond, so you have no room to criticize, especially as I never said such a possibility was set in stone.
Can't see the speck for the plank, eh?
Originally Posted by Gregory Perry Sr.
The anti-KJVO'ers on this board and others are classic hobby-horse riders. Reading their lame arguments and so-called "evidence"
"lame arguments" is hysterical.
Perhaps one reason that KJV-only advocates seem to resort to their emotionally charged personal attacks and bogus accusations against believers who disagree with mere KJV-only opinions and assumptions is those so-called "lame" but actually very sound, scripturally based arguments that they cannot answer and refute.
Were the arguments of the KJV translators against the one-perfect-translation-only theory of their day "lame" arguments?
Actual documented and well-established facts are only "so-called" evidence according to KJV-only advocates while unsupported, subjective KJV-only assertions must be blindly assumed to be "factual."
Is it really a lame argument to call for the use of consistent, just measures in evaluating the original language manuscript evidence and in evaluating all translations and to oppose the use of unscriptural, unrighteous divers measures?
Is it really a lame argument to appeal to the wisdom that is from above that opposes the showing of partiality?
Is it really a lame argument to assert that the word of God is not bound or limited to the textual criticism decisions and translation decisions of any exclusive group of scholars?
Failed to respond? Are you serious? I started an entire thread about it where you were soundly refuted, posted numerous articles by Biblical scholars explaining it, several others showed you why you were wrong, and you claim ''I failed to respond''!
Your accusation is false
You in effect contradict yourself. You assert that you have seen plenty of solid evidence for the KJV position while claiming that the posting of such solid evidence for it is not tolerated.
The typical use of fallacies to defend the KJV-only view would not be solid evidence. The use of unrighteous divers measures in making accusations against other English Bibles while using a different measure for the KJV is not solid evidence.
The actual posting of solid, documented evidence is not prohibited or hindered at this board. Posters do not get bounced for posting sound or solid evidence, but they may for violating forum rules.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Truth.
Perry has stated in the past on a thread I began on KJVO that he has studied it for some 30+ years, basically commending himself as an expert and that as evidence.
But when asked, based upon his 3 decades of research for evidence, he said in essence he cannot, he has forgotten all of it.
Go figure.
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