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An answer to the sinless day
- Thread starter Dale-c
- Start date
So what is the problem with the flesh? Do you go with some sort of Gnostic belief that the body is evil?npetreley said:
So Jesus gave us a command that we cannot meet? He tells us to do things we can't do, even with His power in our lives? Why should we take Jesus seriously if He commands us to do things He knows good and well we can't do?
What does that say about the character of God that He would those who want to please Him in a situation where we are always condemned?
That strikes me as completely against the spirit of the New Testament and contrary to the character of God:
- Jesus gives His followers commands that He seems to expect that they will follow
- Paul spends quite a bit of time talking about how to put aside sin and press on toward holiness (perhaps he didn't have the insight of the 21st century American church?)
- the writer of 1 John seems to believe that we can live more than a few seconds without sin (if you can't live a second without sinning, how can you live a life that is not characterized by sin?)
Yes. Thanks, I fixed it.npetreley said:
You're assuming that you are right and I am wrong. Since I agree with your definition of sin (as you presented it), we are likely faced with the original issue that you think we can somehow sin every second, yet live lives that are not characterized by sin (to match up with the teaching of 1 John).npetreley said:
Here's a question: Can you show me scripture that teaches that Christians sin every second?
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
In Romans 6, we read:
If the Bible is the Word of God, and the Word of God is true, then it must be possible to walk in the Spirit, it must be possible to yield yourselves unto God.
The Word of God declares if one is walking in the Spirit, then that one will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
The Word of God declares that Job turned his back on sin. The Word is not specific as to how long this period was, but it must have been for some length of time for satan to want God to put him to the test.
I bet that if each one of us determined in our hearts to serve God, to revere Him for who He is as Job must have, we would be able to turn our backs on evil long enough to get the devil mad.
Problem is many are afraid to get the devil mad. Many are afraid if they get the devil mad, they might lose homes, material gain, health, wealth, or even family as Job did.
And that is why, as Linda64 put it, many people live a defeated life... because they are afraid of worldly consequences for serving the Heavenly Father.
and in Galatians 5:
If the Bible is the Word of God, and the Word of God is true, then it must be possible to walk in the Spirit, it must be possible to yield yourselves unto God.
The Word of God declares if one is walking in the Spirit, then that one will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
The Word of God declares that Job turned his back on sin. The Word is not specific as to how long this period was, but it must have been for some length of time for satan to want God to put him to the test.
I bet that if each one of us determined in our hearts to serve God, to revere Him for who He is as Job must have, we would be able to turn our backs on evil long enough to get the devil mad.
Problem is many are afraid to get the devil mad. Many are afraid if they get the devil mad, they might lose homes, material gain, health, wealth, or even family as Job did.
And that is why, as Linda64 put it, many people live a defeated life... because they are afraid of worldly consequences for serving the Heavenly Father.
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That is about the most absurd thing I have ever read. And that's saying something.
Afraid to make the devil mad...
You're crazy.
Afraid to make the devil mad...
You're crazy.
Baptist Believer said:
No, that's too extreme. The flesh is susceptible to sensual desires. The flesh is also weak. I look forward to the day when God changes me and I'll shed these limitations.
Baptist Believer said:
God gave us tons of commands we can't do. One of the purposes of the law was to teach us we can't obey it on our own steam. I believe the point Jesus made about lust/adultery was that even those of us who never commit adultery aren't off the hook, because we're going to experience lust before we can even recognize it. God's righteousness exceeds anything we can do (with or without the Spirit), which is why we so desperately need Jesus.
If you believe God would never tell us to do something unless we were capable of doing it, then obey the letter and spirit of the law perfectly for your entire life. Whoops, too late.
Who is claiming that we can have Christian transformation under "our own steam?!"npetreley said:
No one!
Any progress we make is made through the power of the Holy Spirit working in us and through us, with our active participation!
Lust is a decision we make. If something sexually provocative appears before you, you can look away without lusting, but you better not look at it again or meditate on what you have already seen or you are likely to fall into lust.
No arguments here.
That's what we are called to do. And the New Testament indicates that it is possible.
Didn't God take care of this on the cross? Isn't that one of the major reasons Jesus came, to seek and sake those who are lost?
Don't wallow in sin and regret, get up, accept the fact that you are forgiven and move forward. (1 John 1:9)
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
npetreley said:
Since God's Word state:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5:3)
I would say your post above is contrary to what His Word says. I will believe His Word.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
The facts that God's commandments are not grievous (too hard to bear) is stated in the New Testament.
It is not that man could not keep the original commandments handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai. Under the power of God, man could keep them.
"Stand still, and see the Salvation of the LORD"
it is that man would not keep them.
Man, of his own volition, chooses to sin.
"Choose ye this day whom ye will serve..."
Sin in the life of a Christian is a choice, not a must!
Obedience in the life of a Christian is a must, not a choice!
It is not that man could not keep the original commandments handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai. Under the power of God, man could keep them.
"Stand still, and see the Salvation of the LORD"
it is that man would not keep them.
Man, of his own volition, chooses to sin.
"Choose ye this day whom ye will serve..."
Sin in the life of a Christian is a choice, not a must!
Obedience in the life of a Christian is a must, not a choice!
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Romans 6:1-23:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? {were: or, are}
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. {freed: Gr. justified}
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. {instruments: Gr. arms, or, weapons}
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. {which...: Gr. whereto ye were delivered}
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. {from...: Gr. to righteousness}
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we understand who we are in Christ, we have been set free from the bondage to sin. In Christ, we are free NOT to sin--therefore, to say that we can't go for a certain length of time without sinning, is living in defeat. In Christ, we are able, by the power of the Holy Spirit, to walk in newness of life--in victory.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? {were: or, are}
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. {freed: Gr. justified}
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. {instruments: Gr. arms, or, weapons}
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. {which...: Gr. whereto ye were delivered}
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. {from...: Gr. to righteousness}
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When we understand who we are in Christ, we have been set free from the bondage to sin. In Christ, we are free NOT to sin--therefore, to say that we can't go for a certain length of time without sinning, is living in defeat. In Christ, we are able, by the power of the Holy Spirit, to walk in newness of life--in victory.
Sanctification is a process. Justification is instant.
Ok, new question for Baptist Believer and [snipped by Administrator] whatever your name is and any other of yor that claim 24 hours of sinlessness is a possibility:
When was the last time you went 24 hours without sin?
ANd of course if you can do 24 surely it must get easier with time and you have done 48 and 72 hours etc.
Come on, if you can, then you have! When was the last time?
Was it yesterday? Did you sin yesterday?
Hmmm.....
When was the last time you went 24 hours without sin?
ANd of course if you can do 24 surely it must get easier with time and you have done 48 and 72 hours etc.
Come on, if you can, then you have! When was the last time?
Was it yesterday? Did you sin yesterday?
Hmmm.....
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We're talking about sanctification here.Bro. Curtis said:
I'm not sure if I ever have, but I have gone a number of hours without sin, usually in the midst of extensive ministry activity.Dale-c said:
Yes, as our character is transformed, our habits are reoriented toward godliness and sin is no longer our first impulse.
Nope, that is not logical. Just because I may have the ability to do something doesn't mean I have done it. I have only been practicing spiritual disciplines for about 18 months now, and I'm just starting to get the hang of things.
Actually I did sin yesterday.
Why does it threaten you to know that God's word teaches you can actually live a transformed life? My failure to excel at this point in my spiritual journey does not invalidate the teaching of Jesus.
Seems to me that we have a bunch of folks who are sitting in the boat, ripping on Peter for sinking in the waves when his faith wavered... yet they don't have the faith to even step out.
Here's the real question:
Does Jesus teach that we have the power to live a transformed life?
If He does, then you need to get busy learning how it is to be done.
If He doesn't, and yet gives us commands that we can't possibly follow, then you have to figure out if Jesus can be trusted. And if you don't trust Jesus, then I doubt you can be one of His followers (a Christian).
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Dale-c said:
How about one day a few months back when our church was in revival. The message from the night before was so good that I was sharing it with on the phone practically all day with family and friends sharing the Word of God.
How about other days when I would stand on a street corner and pass out the Salvation message in the form of a tract from morning until night... stopping only moments to replinish my water supply fith a case provided by a local vendor?
I can name many times when I have been obedient to the Lord for long periods of time.
Paul never said that he or anyone else could not go a full day without sin... he only said that the Spirit would war against the flesh.
It is your choice of what to do when that happens. Some choose the latter more than others.
As HBSMN stated:
Very wise obversation. It is not that we have to sin just because we are in these flesh bodies, because the way to escape that temptation has been provided for the one who will take it.
It is just at times, we give in to the flesh and choose not to take that way of escape, but rather yield our members over as instruments of unrighteousness.
Sanctification means being set apart to God from sin and there are three different aspects of this sanctification: past, present, and future. "I have been sanctified, I am being sanctified, and I will yet be sanctified."Bro. Curtis said:
Past sanctification means a person has already been positionally set apart in Christ:
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
At the new birth, every believer is eternally set apart in Christ and we become new creatures in Christ Jesus. (2 Cor. 5:17).
Present sanctification is the process by which the Holy Spirit gradually changes a believer's life to give victory over sin. This is called Christian growth, which is the putting away of sin and putting on godliness.
1 Peter 1:14-16 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
This present process of sanctification never ends in this life. The Christian must continually resist sin until he dies or the Lord returns.
Future sanctification is the perfection the believer will enjoy at the resurrection, when we receive our glorified bodies. At that time, we will be saved from the very presence of sin.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
A believer who says "I can't go without sinning for an entire day" is not growing spiritually. Do you rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to keep you from sin? Or, do you give in to the flesh? A prime example of a group of believers who were not growing spiritually was the church at Corinth. Paul called them brethren, but he also called them "babes" and "carnal". We don't have to sin, but we choose to do so--why?
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
Baptist Believer said:
And a hearty amen to that. The fact is, Christ is to be trusted above all. He would not tell us to do the impossible, His commandments are not too hard to bear.
If we give in to sin, it is not because we had to sin...