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An "Ax to Grind!"

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Pastor DanL

Pastor DanL

New Member
HankD said:
yes there is. I am a proud Mugwump. Undecided.
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I just joined the board and so here is my first post - I would describe myself as a decided 2/ 12 pointer which places me firmly in the middle of His grace by His word. I also think that both sides are wrong on either what they know or don't know, as it were! I will say just because our finite minds can't reconcile two seemingly "opposing sides" does not mean that GOD with His infinite wisdom can't, or that the "sides" exist. GOD is just, and I trust Him. Some one once said "GOD said it, I believe it, and that settles it" but it does not depend on anyone's belief! If GOD said it THAT settles it! God settles it whether anyone believes or understands. I know by God's word each and every person is accountable, and that GOD provided the way for us to be saved.

Side Bar - I know a guy that claims to be a Calvinist and that his living in sin is GOD's will, because it would not happen if it weren't! I doubt anyone on this board would go that far or along with that thought process.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Welcome to the BB.

When you say you accept 2 1/2 points of the TULIP you cause me to wonder if you really understand what TULIP is all about. All the points depend on all the other points. If you discard one point the entire structure collapses.

Either man is depraved in body, soul, and spirit or he is not.

Either man meets a condition of holiness or he doesn't.

Either the Atonement is limited or salvation is universal.

Either God's Grace accomplishes what He intended it to accomplish or it doesn't.

Either our salvation is eternal or it is not.

Take away any one and the rest fall like dominoes. :)
 
HankD

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Pastor DanL said:
I just joined the board and so here is my first post - I would describe myself as a decided 2/ 12 pointer which places me firmly in the middle of His grace by His word. I also think that both sides are wrong on either what they know or don't know, as it were! I will say just because our finite minds can't reconcile two seemingly "opposing sides" does not mean that GOD with His infinite wisdom can't, or that the "sides" exist. GOD is just, and I trust Him. Some one once said "GOD said it, I believe it, and that settles it" but it does not depend on anyone's belief! If GOD said it THAT settles it! God settles it whether anyone believes or understands. I know by God's word each and every person is accountable, and that GOD provided the way for us to be saved.

Side Bar - I know a guy that claims to be a Calvinist and that his living in sin is GOD's will, because it would not happen if it weren't! I doubt anyone on this board would go that far or along with that thought process.
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Pastor DanL, I like your point of view.

Some said there is no middle ground in the C vs A debate - how about this passage?

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

seems like God wants NOT to violate our will.

Kind of like Paul with Felix and Agrippa.

Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
 
F

Felipe Rios

Member
Pastor DanL said:
I just joined the board and so here is my first post - I would describe myself as a decided 2/ 12 pointer which places me firmly in the middle of His grace by His word. I also think that both sides are wrong on either what they know or don't know, as it were! I will say just because our finite minds can't reconcile two seemingly "opposing sides" does not mean that GOD with His infinite wisdom can't, or that the "sides" exist. GOD is just, and I trust Him. Some one once said "GOD said it, I believe it, and that settles it" but it does not depend on anyone's belief! If GOD said it THAT settles it! God settles it whether anyone believes or understands. I know by God's word each and every person is accountable, and that GOD provided the way for us to be saved.

Side Bar - I know a guy that claims to be a Calvinist and that his living in sin is GOD's will, because it would not happen if it weren't! I doubt anyone on this board would go that far or along with that thought process.
Click to expand...
Pastor DanL said:
I just joined the board and so here is my first post - I would describe myself as a decided 2/ 12 pointer which places me firmly in the middle of His grace by His word. I also think that both sides are wrong on either what they know or don't know, as it were! I will say just because our finite minds can't reconcile two seemingly "opposing sides" does not mean that GOD with His infinite wisdom can't, or that the "sides" exist. GOD is just, and I trust Him. Some one once said "GOD said it, I believe it, and that settles it" but it does not depend on anyone's belief! If GOD said it THAT settles it! God settles it whether anyone believes or understands. I know by God's word each and every person is accountable, and that GOD provided the way for us to be saved.

Side Bar - I know a guy that claims to be a Calvinist and that his living in sin is GOD's will, because it would not happen if it weren't! I doubt anyone on this board would go that far or along with that thought process.
Click to expand...
Rhetorician said:
To whom it may concern and all "who may have a dog in the fight!"

Dr. RC Sproul declared, "Theology should be done on the razor's edge!" My ax to grind and my bone to pick is this. All of you who are not "in the know" let me help you out here.

Many are calling those Baptists who believe in Particular Redemption "Calvinists" or "Calvies" or some other pejorative term. Please do not continue to show your theological, Biblical, or historical ignorance by using such tripe. Please refer to us as "Particular Redemptionist," "Historical Baptists," or "Reformed" (minded or leaning) Baptists.

When you, with a bad attitude, call us Calvinists you know not of what you speak, because;

First, I do not baptize babies,

Secondly, I do not sprinkle and call it baptism,

Third, I only baptist those who can make a confession of the Gospel and show personal proof or repentance,

Fourth, I do not believe the church and state should ever be together,

Fifth, I believe in a "free church" in a "free state."

Sixth, and many more things that I could mention.

You are welcome!

sdg!

rd
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Instead of the TULIP, here is a bed of ROSES for you guys:
R Radical Depravity (instead of total depravity): emphasizes that every aspect of our being is affected by the fall and rendered incapable of saving ourselves (instead of the impression that fallen humanity is as bad as it possibly can be).

O Overcoming Grace (instead of irresistible grace): The new term highlights that it is God’s persistent beckoning that overcomes our wicked obstinacy (instead of the old term which seems to imply that God saves a person against his will).

S Sovereign election (instead of unconditional election): old term is presented in such a way as to give the impression that those who die without receiving Christ did so because God never desired their salvation in the first place. The new term affirms that God desires the salvation of all, yet accentuates that our salvation is not based on us choosing God but on God choosing us.

E Eternal life (instead of perseverance of saints): old term leads to the notion that a believer’s assurance is based on his ability to persevere rather than on the fact that he is declared righteous in Christ. The new term stresses that believers enjoy a transformed life that is preserved and we are given a faith that will remain.

S Singular Redemption (instead of limited atonement): old term teaches that Christ died only for the elect and gives the impression that there is something lacking in the atonement. The new term emphasizes that Christ died sufficiently for every person, although efficiently only for those who believe.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
HankD said:
seems like God wants NOT to violate our will.
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Which is probably why He doesn't.

Remember the Hornet Song.

"He does not compel us to go, No! No!
He does not compel us to go.
He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
But He just makes us willing to go."
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Felipe Rios said:
Instead of the TULIP, here is a bed of ROSES for you guys:
R Radical Depravity (instead of total depravity): emphasizes that every aspect of our being is affected by the fall and rendered incapable of saving ourselves (instead of the impression that fallen humanity is as bad as it possibly can be).

O Overcoming Grace (instead of irresistible grace): The new term highlights that it is God’s persistent beckoning that overcomes our wicked obstinacy (instead of the old term which seems to imply that God saves a person against his will).

S Sovereign election (instead of unconditional election): old term is presented in such a way as to give the impression that those who die without receiving Christ did so because God never desired their salvation in the first place. The new term affirms that God desires the salvation of all, yet accentuates that our salvation is not based on us choosing God but on God choosing us.

E Eternal life (instead of perseverance of saints): old term leads to the notion that a believer’s assurance is based on his ability to persevere rather than on the fact that he is declared righteous in Christ. The new term stresses that believers enjoy a transformed life that is preserved and we are given a faith that will remain.

S Singular Redemption (instead of limited atonement): old term teaches that Christ died only for the elect and gives the impression that there is something lacking in the atonement. The new term emphasizes that Christ died sufficiently for every person, although efficiently only for those who believe.
Click to expand...

Just when I had TULIP all figured out... Someone comes on here and throws me into a bed of ROSES... Would you brethren make up your mind?... Brother Glen:rolleyes:
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
TCassidy said:
All the points (of TULIP) depend on all the other points.
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If man is not totally depraved then he is good enough to meet some condition of election.

If he meets some condition of election then the Atonement is efficient for his salvation but not for the salvation of those who do not.

If the first three are not true then God's Grace is not always efficacious, but can be frustrated.

If the first 4 are not true then our salvation may not be eternal but is subject to our own decisionism. We may not, if this is not true, be preserved unto the end.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
tyndale1946 said:
Just when I had TULIP all figured out... Someone comes on here and throws me into a bed of ROSES... Would you brethren make up your mind?... Brother Glen:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Just playing semantics. The points are exactly the same as TULIP.
 
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