Ananais and Sapphira...lost?

[EdSutton]

No. I am not suggesting that I am the only one who is correct. I listed A. T. Robertson, for one who agrees with me among many others, as a historic Baptist who formerly was the original Pres. of SBTS and to this day quite honest the most brilliant NT linguist to have grace Baptist circles.

I have not ever made any statement in this thread that is unbiblical. I challenged you to start a new thread on the Holy Spirit if you want to exchange ideas. Put up or stand down but do not smack talk without backing it up.

A.T. Robertson was undoubtedly the most brilliant Baptist linguist of his day, and in fact may still be unmatched to this day. But he was never president of SBTS, (or any other Seminary for that matter, nor the SBC) although his father-in-law and some-time mentor, John A. Broadus was President of SBTS from 1888- 1895. Dr. Robertson succeeded Dr. Broadus as Prof. of N.T. (although I think He was already on the SBTS faculty prior, but am not certain of that) upon the death of Dr. Broadus, and held that 'chair' for 39 years until his own death in 1934. I believe that Dr. Robertson may have been elected President of the KY Baptist Convention, and either the SS Board or the Foreigh Mission Board as well. But not the SBC or SBTS. As to whether or not any statement you, I, or anyone else makes "that is unbiblical", isn't that what we debate, here? But do please mark down that one statement was made that was historically inaccurate. And if you find it necessary, I will provide the evidence to "back it up" historically, but not at this minute, as it is time for prayer meeting.

Ed

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

You don't know people on this board very well. You are very pompous and trust more in your education rather than in Christ. At least that is my assessment.
I am not going to tell you how many degrees I have, nor how many years of post-secondary education I have taken, but I willing to guess that (considering your age which is in your profile) that it is more than you.
As far as I am concerned I was saved as an adult and have been studying at the foot of Jesus for more years than you have been alive. If I were you I would tread softly.
DHK

DHK,

Yeah, well who asked you?:tongue3:

 

[Brother Bob]

Just goes to show, I neither learned it of man nor was I taught it but it came by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is not of the enticing words of man's wisdom and He chose the weak to confound the mighty.
Youth really does show from time to time.

Not too often but sometimes it "feels good" to have some age on you.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

A.T. Robertson was undoubtedly the most brilliant Baptist linguist of his day, and in fact may still be unmatched to this day. But he was never president of SBTS, (or any other Seminary for that matter, nor the SBC) although his father-in-law and some-time mentor, John A. Broadus was President of SBTS from 1888- 1895. Dr. Robertson succeeded Dr. Broadus as Prof. of N.T. (although I think He was already on the SBTS faculty prior, but am not certain of that) upon the death of Dr. Broadus, and held that 'chair' for 39 years until his own death in 1934. I believe that Dr. Robertson may have been elected President of the KY Baptist Convention, and either the SS Board or the Foreigh Mission Board as well. But not the SBC or SBTS. As to whether or not any statement you, I, or anyone else makes "that is unbiblical", isn't that what we debate, here? But do please mark down that one statement was made that was historically inaccurate. And if you find it necessary, I will provide the evidence to "back it up" historically, but not at this minute, as it is time for prayer meeting.

Ed

I am frequently wrong but never in doubt. I am always more than willing to admit it when I am wrong. I know he was Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (1895-1934). I for some reason believed he was the first president of SBTS. However, I did not get that from a text book but only from memory. As that is not my area of expertise I believe I very well be wrong and you are correct.:applause: Now that I think of it I think, I was wrong about him being the first president. I believe that was J. P. Boyce. Oh my! I beg your pardon.raying:

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

Just goes to show, I neither learned it of man nor was I taught it but it came by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is not of the enticing words of man's wisdom and He chose the weak to confound the mighty.
Youth really does show from time to time.

Not too often but sometimes it "feels good" to have some age on you.

Rev. Bob,

It is great for you to stop by. How is it I always seem to bring out the worst in folks? I am just seem to show up and blow their weak arguments out of the water and when they cannot defeat my logic they try assassinate my character.:tonofbricks:

 

[Brother Bob]

Rev. Bob,

It is great for you to stop by. How is it I always seem to bring out the worst in folks? I am just seem to show up and blow their weak arguments out of the water and when they cannot defeat my logic they try assassinate my character

You are very well educated but you don't have to keep saying it for it puts people on the defensive. Let the others feel they are contributing to the discussion. I am sure you are a good person but you do push too hard as I also do but age does slow you down some. You consider yourself to always be right and human nature won't let you do that. Of course they accuse me of same thing so who am I?


"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." -- (Louis) Hector Berlioz

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

You are very well educated but you don't have to keep saying it for it puts people on the defensive. Let the others feel they are contributing to the discussion. I am sure you are a good person but you do push too hard as I also do but age does slow you down some. You consider yourself to always be right and human nature won't let you do that. Of course they accuse me of same thing so who am I?


"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." -- (Louis) Hector Berlioz

Rev. Bob,

Me and you are an acquired tasted. I had to learn to drink my coffee black, but that was the way my grandpaw did it so that was the way I wanted it.

Am I confident? Sure, but one thing that separates me from some of these jokers, is that I willing to admit when I am wrong. There are people in here that no matter how black and white you make it for them they just do not get it. BTW, I did not start challenging the competencies of any in here until some of these guys who do not even know Greek started falsely accusing me of misunderstanding the verbs to which I was making reference. Greek is not for everyone and I have made it plain that you do not need to read Greek in order to understand the Bible. But you need to read Greek in order to be authoritative on what the original meaning of the text communicates. Reading the English is a translation and it is like kissing your bride through the veil.

One other thing, it is completely unfair to say that I do not rely on my relationship with Jesus to understand Scripture. Go back and read how much I have been preaching the power of Jesus' shed blood. There is power in the blood!

 

[Brother Bob]

Am I confident? Sure, but one thing that separates me from some of these jokers, is that I willing to admit when I am wrong.

There are others on here just as educated as you and certainly as confident. That is where the problem is. This is a forum for debate for no man knows the entire Bible. God gives different preachers different gifts and some are teachers and some are not but that does not mean they are not educated, if not in the universities of this Land then the Highest Teacher of all the Lord Himself. You just can't call them names like that when they have given their lives to serving the Lord and have studied most of their lives. You have to meet them on level ground and if you have scripture to show the others wrong then so be it but visa versa. I am sure you could add to these discussions but if you put everyone on the defense right away then it is not a discussion but a brawl. Again, who am I?

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

There are others on here just as educated as you and certainly as confident. That is where the problem is. This is a forum for debate for no man knows the entire Bible. God gives different preachers different gifts and some are teachers and some are not but that does not mean they are not educated, if not in the universities of this Land then the Highest Teacher of all the Lord Himself. You just can't call them names like that when they have given their lives to serving the Lord and have studied most of their lives. You have to meet them on level ground and if you have scripture to show the others wrong then so be it but visa versa. I am sure you could add to these discussions but if you put everyone on the defense right away then it is not a discussion but a brawl. Again, who am I?

I hear you but the merit of the discussion is what I judge people by, not their education. If you have something to say then say it. But be prepared to back up what you say with substance.

Bob, go back and read this thread and tell me what you think about this whole issue. Do you think Ananias was saved or better yet you think that a believer can be possessed by a demon? Moreover, what do make of the issues that we are dealing with on this thread in terms of the security of the believer? Do you believe that someone can lose their salvation?

 

[Brother Bob]

I have to admit I haven't read it and don't know your stance but here is mine and you can tell me if its close to yours or not.

I don't believe in a fall and would rather believe that Ananais and Sapphira were fooled in their conversion and never were saved in the first place than to believe they were saved and then lost. I think they were never saved.

Ephesians, chapter 1

"13": In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Jude, chapter 1

"24": Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,


Hebrews, chapter 6

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

I will say this though, a brain is like any other organ of the body and can become afflicted so as to not function right. I have heard Christians in nursing homes cursing but I never did hold it against them and don't think God did because of the defect of the brain. Others may differ with me but thats alright. I preach a lot of funerals and I go by how I feel when I stand over that person and the life they lived.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

I have to admit I haven't read it and don't know your stance but here is mine and you can tell me if its close to yours or not.

I don't believe in a fall and would rather believe that Ananais and Sapphira were fooled in their conversion and never were saved in the first place than to believe they were saved and then lost. I think they were never saved.

Ephesians, chapter 1

"13": In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Jude, chapter 1

"24": Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,


Hebrews, chapter 6

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

I will say this though, a brain is like any other organ of the body and can become afflicted so as to not function right. I have heard Christians in nursing homes cursing but I never did hold it against them and don't think God did because of the defect of the brain. Others may differ with me but thats alright. I preach a lot of funerals and I go by how I feel when I stand over that person and the life they lived.

I think we are pretty much in agreement here Bob... imagine that.:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

Amazing..........

 

[J. Jump]

Boy this thread certainly digressed in a hurry! :tonofbricks:

 

[Brother Bob]

explain please............

 

[James_Newman]

I think we are pretty much in agreement here Bob... imagine that.:laugh:

Well, you can't be right all the time. Don't take it too hard, Bob.

 

[webdog]

I don't believe in a fall and would rather believe that Ananais and Sapphira were fooled in their conversion and never were saved in the first place than to believe they were saved and then lost. I think they were never saved.

BrotherBob, can you show from the text where it insinuates they were saved and then lost? Does physical death mean that one was never saved? I'm not following your reasoning here...

Also, what do you mean you don't believe in a "fall"?

 

[webdog]

I hear you but the merit of the discussion is what I judge people by, not their education. If you have something to say then say it. But be prepared to back up what you say with substance.

If merit of discussion is what you judge people by, your arrogance is sickening. I have seen those on here "back up" what they said, and you just dismissed it without any thought citing all of your educational accomplishments...which has become the norm for you here on the BB.

 

[Brother Bob]

BrotherBob, can you show from the text where it insinuates they were saved and then lost? Does physical death mean that one was never saved? I'm not following your reasoning here...

Also, what do you mean you don't believe in a "fall"?

What I mean in a "fall" is I don't believe you can lose your salvation.

I don't understand what you mean by "does physical death mean that one was never saved". We all die so that does not have anything to do with Salvation.

What I said is that there are many in the church who claim to be Christians but are not and Maybe they were never Christians to start with for they were full of "greed" and they were liars and theives. I find it hard to believe a true Christian are those things. If you don't believe in a fall from Grace then how could these two have been Christians to start with, a Christian don't do the things they did. Even Satan transformed himself as a minister of righteous so its not great thing that these two may have been of Satan all the time. I am not saying I am right on this but I am one who believes a Christian is a better person than a worldly person and is kept by the power of God. The scriptures say there will be no liars in Heaven and these two lied.

Well, you can't be right all the time. Don't take it too hard, Bob

I don't know what you are saying James; Do you think you have caught me up in a mistake or something. I don't understand. I posted my veiw without reading anyone else's and BPT happened to agree with it. He is not wrong all the time, he just has a hard time expressing himself without offending others. Sometimes you have the same problem.

 

[James_Newman]

I don't know what you are saying James; Do you think you have caught me up in a mistake or something. I don't understand. I posted my veiw without reading anyone else's and BPT happened to agree with it. He is not wrong all the time, he just has a hard time expressing himself without offending others. Sometimes you have the same problem.

The topic of Ananias' salvation is what we have been discussing. If we are going to assume that he is unsaved based on the fact that he told a lie, then are we not teaching a works based salvation? Or are you really going to tell me that true Christians never lie? I would think your nose would grow if you said that.

1 Corinthians 10:11-12
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

These are examples for the church, for saved folk. Ananias and Sapphira were an example as well, and caused the church to fear. I don't believe a Christian can lose his eternal salvation, but I do believe that a Christian can suffer in this life for sins and at the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

The topic of Ananias' salvation is what we have been discussing. If we are going to assume that he is unsaved based on the fact that he told a lie, then are we not teaching a works based salvation? Or are you really going to tell me that true Christians never lie? I would think your nose would grow if you said that.

Tell me something James;
Just how far do you believe a Christian can go? Can they kill, commit adultery, worship idols, dishonor their father and mother, covet their neighbor's wife, lie, steal what kind of a Christian do you advocate anyway?

Also, with my whole being I try not to lie. A lie is to try and deceive someone else. Maybe you do but speak for yourself.