Ananias and Sapphira

[convicted1]

IMO, this is excellent extrapolation from the text.



Whatever the case, what did him in was, 'thou has not lied unto men, but unto God'.

So which is it for these two, heaven or hell?

I am hard pressed to believe they were believers. But this doesn't change their eternal state one iota. I hope they were believers...

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Lots of good thoughts on here, but I'm not sure anyone has touched on the reality of what happened with Ananias and Sapphira. Consider that this is virtually the same sin as Achan in the conquering of the Promised Land.

Joshua 7, (NASB)
1 But the sons of Israel acted unfaithfully in regard to the things under the ban, for Achan, the son of Carmi, the son of Zabdi, the son of Zerah, from the tribe of Judah, took some of the things under the ban, therefore the anger of the LORD burned against the sons of Israel.​

Peter gives away the key to understanding this corrupt pair's acts of sin.

Acts 5
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?"​

Peter identified the issue as a spiritual battle, just as Achan's choice to withhold plunder from Israel collected during the battle for Shinar was a spiritual battle. That sin occurred early on in Joshua's ministry and leadership over Israel, and it needed to be nipped in the bud quickly, or it might become a plague on Israel. Achan brought Satan's battle against God for Israel into the tents of Israel. For his sin, Achan and his family were stoned to death, and his livestock, even his possessions, were buried under "a great heap of stones" (Joshua 7:24-26) in the Achor Valley.

Just as with Achan's punishment, Ananias and Sapphira received condemnation for entertaining Satan and bringing his battle against the gospel directly into the church. It was stern warning to the new covenant believers that they should be wary of their thoughts, words and actions in light of their responsibility to the believing community.

It holds no portent for today's church, given that we've gone two thousand years and such treachery and satanic influence has entered into the church countless times without such a remarkable and visible judgment being handed down from on high. But the fragility of the early church, as the fragility of early Israel, required a swift and credible response from God in order to establish a "signpost" event to discourage those who would do harm to the community before it really got a chance to be established.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

As discussed...

James L; I am in agreement with your assessment of the events; A & S wanted to look 'good' like some others while keeping some for their own nest egg. The sin was in lying about how much they were giving; in fact, lying to God. Never a good idea.

I think A & S will be in Heaven. The ONLY reason people go to Hell is because they reject the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus. I think (and could be wrong) the rest of the Church in Jerusalem accepted them as believers; the passage doesn't say anything to the contrary - as was mentioned of Judas prior. (All the information indicates Judas never was really a believer.)

Also, in the garden when Jesus was arrested and Peter took on the arresting party, Jesus told Peter not to fight, and ... (Matthew 26:52) Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back in its place! For all who take hold of the sword will die by the sword. No mention of going to Hell, just dying. We - Christians - should not think dying to be the ultimate misfortune. We are all going to die (apart from His coming, of course) so that's not really a surprise. Truthfully, I would rather die than betray friends, act without honor or deny God.

Why doesn't God continue to simply kill those who act reprehensibly? I don't know. One would think that at least one of the pastors who have been committing adultery with a married woman would qualify, if anyone. On the other hand, there have been church members who have died under 'odd' conditions. Who knows? God does not consult with me on such matters, nor has He ever filed an after action report with me. I can say I would prefer NOT to be the test subject.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hey Arch ...

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say A&S will be in heaven. That's up to God, for sure, but the fruit of their faith looks pretty rotten and/or barren from here. I guess my opinion goes along with what I posted, though. From my perspective, it is the same sin as Achan's and I'm pretty sure he isn't going to be found in heaven.

He may surprise me, too, though. Who knows?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

From who's perspective?

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say A&S will be in heaven. That's up to God, for sure, but the fruit of their faith looks pretty rotten and/or barren from here.

I agree about the impression one gets, but this is all we ever hear of them.

My main point - and I seem to have hidden it well - was that manner of death does not affect salvation. IF they had a believer's relationship with Jesus, they're in.

From my perspective, it is the same sin as Achan's and I'm pretty sure he isn't going to be found in heaven.

Achan does not fall under the Grace offered by Jesus. Achan was under the Mosaic Law. Again, things do not look good for the Achan team, but I shrink from speaking on the Lord's behalf.

However, considering the vicarious sacrifice of Jesus AND the way the Lord deals with me, I am forced to the belief God Himself looks for loopholes to forgive us humans and provide grace. (That is the whole point of grace, isn't it? To forgive the unworthy?)

Probably, someone will now label me as a universalist - at the last moment, God smiles big and says, "Naaaaw; it's okay. Everybody IN!!!" I cannot expect that, as while God is loving and forgiving and full of grace, He is also just and keeps His word. God cannot lie or renege on a deal.

I do know many of the pre-Jesus Jewish nation will be - are already - in harmony with the Lord, and be with the Lord in Eternity. I do know in Abraham's particular case, Abraham had faith in the Lord, and that Faith was counted as righteousness. So the question is, did Achan also have the required faith? Was Achan's violation of the Lord's ban a lack of faith, or an abundance of stupid? I don't know. (I can say I've suffered from 'abundance of stupid' on occasion and the Lord puts up with me yet. Nor have I been informed of being killed.)

He may surprise me, too, though. Who knows?

I would find that a pleasant surprise. I rather expect Achan would as well. Not to mention his wife and family.