Catholics have never said that "Jesus Christ is the same god as Allah." You pulled that from your own brain. The Catechism says that Muslims acknoledge God the creator. First off, this would be referring to God the Father, not God the Son. Second off, the Catechism never says that it is the same God, but that we have common ground that will someday hopefully lead to more common ground (converting Muslims to Christianity). Stop reading stuff in.
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And now for the "why don't"s...
- Thread starter Deacon's Son
- Start date
You just condemned me and slandered against the LCMS church. You have shown no evidence of the LCMS Church becoming anything like the ELCA, so that statement is wholly unjustified. Furthermore, the issues separating the WELS and LCMS that you listed have nothing to do with what we are talking about. Boy Scouts? Please relate THAT to the discussion at hand.
Furthermore, I have never condemned anyone, especially you. I love you, and God loves you, and I admire your fervent faith. You make bold accusations that are often not accompanied with any evidence, or are rather mean-spirited (as Clint even pointed out). Whoever, the WELS considers Catholics as Christian brethren, and the Catholic Church considers Lutherans their Christian brethren.
How then are you condemning me? That really, really hurts me.
T
tulpje
Guest
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
T
tulpje
Guest
ok ok ok!!! you're right about the dates! i was WRONG! okay!!!! Golly!
I apologize to anyone offended by the way this thread has moved. I do promise you that I'm not sitting her just spouting stuff off. With each question that is posed or quote that is quoted, I'm looking it up. This has been a wonderful learning experience for me. I've learned quite a bit about the WELS in the process. However, Tulpje has been making very hasty statements about my beliefs which have no ground. She will not deny that the Pope is the anti-Christ and that her church has the correct teachings on this...but she has never read of the Lutheran Confessions? I firmly believe that any Lutheran who is going to debate needs to know full well what their own church teaches. I don't come on here without a copy of the Confessions, two Bibles (Protestant and Catholic Canon), and the Catholic Catechism.
I do not agree with unsupported statements such as these, and I will defend them as best as possible. I will not tolerate mean-spirited things when they are full of logical holes, because that's not fair to the people who hold the beliefs that someone is condemning.
Again, I apologize to Tulpje, and I do not think that she is either lost or condemned. Where all here because we seek the truth. We all differ on the truth as well, but that doesn't mean we should condemn one another for it.
I do not agree with unsupported statements such as these, and I will defend them as best as possible. I will not tolerate mean-spirited things when they are full of logical holes, because that's not fair to the people who hold the beliefs that someone is condemning.
Again, I apologize to Tulpje, and I do not think that she is either lost or condemned. Where all here because we seek the truth. We all differ on the truth as well, but that doesn't mean we should condemn one another for it.
T
tulpje
Guest
Your first verse makes an excellent case for Catholicism. You are the one who turned away, closed your eyes, put your hands to your ears, and condemned the Catholic Church. Catholics, on the other hand, see with perfect clarity what confuses the living daylights out of you.
Same for the second verse. Read our thread from an objective point of view. You've called me names, admitted you dont' know the Confessions, and condemned me personally. Who isn't hearing?
Ugh, network went down over the weekend. Put me way behind the curve for this thread looks like I am out. I just don't have the time to spare to go back and catch up.
Link to apocrypha q&a http://www.lcms.org/cic/apocryph.htm
Yall have fun.
Link to apocrypha q&a http://www.lcms.org/cic/apocryph.htm
Yall have fun.
Dear Tulpje,
I am a former Catholic and have caused Catholics on the BB a goodly amount of grief.
OK, you have made a strong case for the OFFICE of pope as antichrist.
Allow me to play the Devil's Advocate (so to speak).
What are the ONLY places in the Scripture where the word "antichrist" is used and defined by a specific criteria?
1 John 2: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Has any Pope ever denied that "Jesus is the Christ"?
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Has any Pope ever denied that "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?
This is not however, to excuse those certain popes who have done or allowed exceeding wickedness upon humanity in times past.
HankD
[ March 11, 2002, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
I am a former Catholic and have caused Catholics on the BB a goodly amount of grief.
OK, you have made a strong case for the OFFICE of pope as antichrist.
Allow me to play the Devil's Advocate (so to speak).
What are the ONLY places in the Scripture where the word "antichrist" is used and defined by a specific criteria?
1 John 2: 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Has any Pope ever denied that "Jesus is the Christ"?
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Has any Pope ever denied that "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"?
This is not however, to excuse those certain popes who have done or allowed exceeding wickedness upon humanity in times past.
HankD
[ March 11, 2002, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
HankD,
Thank you for that well-stated post and for taking a fair and logical stance in regard to the Catholic Church. You just gave me a valuable lesson in Catholic apologetics concerning this topic.
tulpje,
Why don't you read Hank's post and the Scripture passages quoted there, then give us documentation showing that a pope has ever taught against those passages of Holy Scripture. And, if your assertion is that all popes have been and are the anti-Christ, then you must provide documentation showing us that they have all taught against those statements about the anti-Christ in Scripture. I look forward to your reply on this subject.
Pauline
[ March 11, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Pauline ]
Thank you for that well-stated post and for taking a fair and logical stance in regard to the Catholic Church. You just gave me a valuable lesson in Catholic apologetics concerning this topic.
tulpje,
Why don't you read Hank's post and the Scripture passages quoted there, then give us documentation showing that a pope has ever taught against those passages of Holy Scripture. And, if your assertion is that all popes have been and are the anti-Christ, then you must provide documentation showing us that they have all taught against those statements about the anti-Christ in Scripture. I look forward to your reply on this subject.
Pauline
[ March 11, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Pauline ]
Deacon's Son
New Member
Hi all,
A week or two ago, on another thread, there was a really nasty tone evident in alot the banter. People were being downright hateful to one another in the tone and content of their posts.
To be honest, in that particular situation, the most alarming fact was that one of the people with some of the most venom-filled, anti-Catholic posts was a Moderator! That was certainly not encouraging to any of us non-Baptist guests.
Anyway, the point is that I appealed to those posting on that particular thread to please take a deep breath before posting and think about the fact that there are probably many "seekers" who visit this board. I make that same appeal here.
I think we should be mindful of the fact that if we are concentrating on attacking and belittling one another's beliefs and points of view on nominally important doctrines, we are doing a disservice to the name of Christ.
We are all old enough to know that no amount of arguing or finger-pointing is going to change any of our minds.
Sure, healthy discussion and friendly disagreement are both enjoyable and neccessary to bring us together in Christ, despite our differences of opinions on some doctrines. But when a particular line of discourse leaves the realm of edyfication and delves into childish bickering, we are no longer "putting on Christ" for the seeking visitors to this board, but are, instead, better serving the wishes of the Advocate, who wants nothing more than to see us, the body of Christ, present a divided front.
If Baptist Christians and non-Baptist Christians were the only visitors to this board, I would not be so concerned. But we all know that this is just not the case. We must keep in mind that whatever we post here, may be read by one seeking Christ and some of the posts here are not what I hope a person like that would use to form their opinions about our Redeemer and the effect that he has on our lives.
May God bless our efforts to point others to Christ, and may he hinder our efforts to point fingers at each other.
Just food for thought.
God Bless.
IOA,
Deacon's Son
[ March 11, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Deacon's Son ]
A week or two ago, on another thread, there was a really nasty tone evident in alot the banter. People were being downright hateful to one another in the tone and content of their posts.
To be honest, in that particular situation, the most alarming fact was that one of the people with some of the most venom-filled, anti-Catholic posts was a Moderator! That was certainly not encouraging to any of us non-Baptist guests.
Anyway, the point is that I appealed to those posting on that particular thread to please take a deep breath before posting and think about the fact that there are probably many "seekers" who visit this board. I make that same appeal here.
I think we should be mindful of the fact that if we are concentrating on attacking and belittling one another's beliefs and points of view on nominally important doctrines, we are doing a disservice to the name of Christ.
We are all old enough to know that no amount of arguing or finger-pointing is going to change any of our minds.
Sure, healthy discussion and friendly disagreement are both enjoyable and neccessary to bring us together in Christ, despite our differences of opinions on some doctrines. But when a particular line of discourse leaves the realm of edyfication and delves into childish bickering, we are no longer "putting on Christ" for the seeking visitors to this board, but are, instead, better serving the wishes of the Advocate, who wants nothing more than to see us, the body of Christ, present a divided front.
If Baptist Christians and non-Baptist Christians were the only visitors to this board, I would not be so concerned. But we all know that this is just not the case. We must keep in mind that whatever we post here, may be read by one seeking Christ and some of the posts here are not what I hope a person like that would use to form their opinions about our Redeemer and the effect that he has on our lives.
May God bless our efforts to point others to Christ, and may he hinder our efforts to point fingers at each other.
Just food for thought.
God Bless.
IOA,
Deacon's Son
[ March 11, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Deacon's Son ]
