And The Pulpits Are Silent

[jsn9333]

The checks and balances have to do with distributing power, not with making sure the country is moral. In fact, they assume people and those they elect are *not* moral, and they provide safeguards to keep corruption from being too widespread and ruining the country.

A country is only as strong as the checks it places on corruption... the morals have nothing to do with that. If a citizen is a Hindu and not a Christian, that doesn't put the country in any danger. Being a Hindi may be immoral from a Christian perspective (because it denies the deity of Christ), but that is not something that is a "crime". Not all morals are made into crimes nor do all crimes have to do with morals. Crimes have to do with (or should have to do with) only activities that injure other innocent victims in some way, or put them in danger. And some crimes (speeding) are not inherently immoral apart from the fact that a government has instituted a speed limit regulation as it sees fit.

Homosexuals, for instance, are not putting anyone in danger of harm (other then themselves). Sodomy should not be a crime, as it is in many states. Being Hindu shouldn't be a crime either. The church shouldn't be trying to save the nation by political activities to try and have their morals written into law. Again, as I've noted, history shows that a very powerful church can actually be bad for a country... because power tends to corrupt and then people try to shove their religion (or even their particular brand of Christianity) down everyone elses throat. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want Roman Catholicism shoved down my throat like our ancestors had to deal with in Europe. So I'm not going to try to shove Baptist Christianity down anyone's throat under the guise of governmental, political power.

The checks and balances are not working well in this country, the way I see it. The church has lost its impact in our culture for the most part. I'm told a few times each week that science has proven the Bible wrong which shows the entire book is wrong. I'm ask saved from what and so on, our culture has been removed or past by in so much of the country as well as in so many churches. As a child I would say 80% of the folks went to a church or their place of worship at least once a month or more. The city I live in maybe 25% go to a church or a place of worship a month and they don't want to hear about God.
I can't believe we have police in schools, people not showing respect to one another in school or at work. A country is only as strong as the morals they live by and all laws are moral, just which ones are we going to write as law. The only laws that can be enforced are the ones people will obey. Good sound churches will have a lot of sound Christians which will have a good foundation to build upon.

 

[gb93433]

The city I live in maybe 25% go to a church or a place of worship a month and they don't want to hear about God.

Does your Bible read differently than mine.

Mt. 9:37, "Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few."

 

[TCGreek]

In my pulpit I'm still committed to expository preaching and teaching, week in and week out.

I call 'em like I see 'em, to the glory of God.

 

[gb93433]

In my pulpit I'm still committed to expository preaching and teaching, week in and week out.

I call 'em like I see 'em, to the glory of God.

That's great.

Continue to be a good student because some day you will have to defend yourself against the modern-day lazy doctrine being taught today even in often nominally conservative pulpits. While you study I am sure you have already found out that there will be a day when you will have to go against the perpetuated ignorance of often times years of false teaching and nonsense. A lot of what is preached even in comservative pulpits is not the truth. It is nothing more than repeating second hand ignorance rather than first hand study. I have had a number of times when I have confronted other preachers with the truth and they do not want to know what I just told them. They act as thought they did not like what I told them because that means they now know that what their peers told them is false. Those are not always "liberal" preachers either. They just did not know the truth. If some of them would simply take the time to find out what was done in the early churhch they would get some real surprises. However, most want to be a part of the political mess instead of telling both sides they are wrong.

 

[2serve]

gb93433,
I would say that minus the years that both Trotman and Spurgeon had, if you knew me you would see that I have very much the same heart that you read in those two pages and have done all that I know to both win others and to disciple those around me that are willing to hear,whether it be one individual or a group.

But, God forbid that I should measure my self against either, surely I should come up short, as I do when I measure myself against the true measure, Jesus Christ and Thanks be unto God that he covered all of my short falls.

 

[TCGreek]

That's great.

Continue to be a good student because some day you will have to defend yourself against the modern-day lazy doctrine being taught today even in often nominally conservative pulpits. While you study I am sure you have already found out that there will be a day when you will have to go against the perpetuated ignorance of often times years of false teaching and nonsense. A lot of what is preached even in comservative pulpits is not the truth. It is nothing more than repeating second hand ignorance rather than first hand study. I have had a number of times when I have confronted other preachers with the truth and they do not want to know what I just told them. They act as thought they did not like what I told them because that means they now know that what their peers told them is false. Those are not always "liberal" preachers either. They just did not know the truth. If some of them would simply take the time to find out what was done in the early churhch they would get some real surprises. However, most want to be a part of the political mess instead of telling both sides they are wrong.

My own conclusin regarding false teaching is because today's preachers believe that they are the ones responsible for the salvation of souls.

So whatever they can say and however best for them to market the gospel, then they'll do just that.

They are more interested in numbers and are pragmatic in their approach to ministry.

 

[Revmitchell]

A lot of what is preached even in comservative pulpits is not the truth. It is nothing more than repeating second hand ignorance rather than first hand study. I have had a number of times when I have confronted other preachers with the truth and they do not want to know what I just told them.

No pride there.

 

[gb93433]

No pride there.

Keep up the good work. God knows we need people who will preach the truth with passion and conviction.

 

[gb93433]

My own conclusin regarding false teaching is because today's preachers believe that they are the ones responsible for the salvation of souls.

So whatever they can say and however best for them to market the gospel, then they'll do just that.

They are more interested in numbers and are pragmatic in their approach to ministry.

So many denominations and conventions have what is called church growth committees. For about 2000 years we have had church growth which started on our knees and ended with power and conviction with God doing the working in and through us. God will not be mocked by our church growth committees.

If we think we can duplicate what God does then we are arrogant and mock God. God's ways are not our ways. When we do things our way and pat ourselves on the back we get the glory, not God. God wants us to fully know it is in His power for His glory that things which will last for eternity are done.

 

[TCGreek]

So many denominations and conventions have what is called church growth committees. For about 2000 years we have had church growth which started on our knees and ended with power and conviction with God doing the working in and through us. God will not be mocked by our church growth committees.

If we think we can duplicate what God does then we are arrogant and mock God. God's ways are not our ways. When we do things our way and pat ourselves on the back we get the glory, not God. God wants us to fully know it is in His power for His glory that things which will last for eternity are done.

Amen a 1000 times!

And yes, we cannot sit around and expect God to bless our efforts. Like the early church must devote ourselves to prayer and the ministry of the word (Acts 6:4).

Why does prayer precede preaching in this verse? I just notice that, and it's in 4:31 as well.

 

[gb93433]

Why does prayer precede preaching in this verse? I just notice that, and it's in 4:31 as well.

Great point. Thanks.

"Give me one hundred preachers who fear nothing but sin and desire nothing but God, and I care not a straw whether they be clergymen or laymen: such alone will shake the gates of hell, and set up the Kingdom on Heaven upon earth."

--John Wesley

===============
John Wesley used to ask two questions of the young men whom he sent out to preach. The first was, "Has any one been converted?"


If the answer was, "No," he told them he did not think the Lord had called them to preach the Gospel, and he sent them back to their business. When the Holy Ghost convicts of sin, people are either converted or--they don't like it and get mad.


http://www.higherpraise.com/illustrations/preaching.htm

 

[jsn9333]

John Wesley used to ask two questions of the young men whom he sent out to preach. The first was, "Has any one been converted?"
If the answer was, "No," he told them he did not think the Lord had called them to preach the Gospel, and he sent them back to their business. When the Holy Ghost convicts of sin, people are either converted or--they don't like it and get mad.

That's a great line for a speech if your goal is to be a motivational speaker. But if you're to be a Christian preacher, you should teach the Bible. The Bible doesn't say people have to either get mad or get converted when the gospel is correctly preached. Certainly sometimes people get converted, and sometimes people get mad... but sometimes people just get inquisitive and ask to hear more again later after they get to think some... or whatever, there are a ton of reactions possible to be honest.

 

[gb93433]

That's a great line for a speech if your goal is to be a motivational speaker. But if you're to be a Christian preacher, you should teach the Bible. The Bible doesn't say people have to either get mad or get converted when the gospel is correctly preached. Certainly sometimes people get converted, and sometimes people get mad... but sometimes people just get inquisitive and ask to hear more again later after they get to think some... or whatever, there are a ton of reactions possible to be honest.

You are right. Although I think Wesley’s point is that people should not remain the same when we preach, because God's word is living, active and sharp.

I think anytime we preach past the intellectual and into the practical we get reactions. We get reactions of obedience and disobedience. God's word illuminates their heart. I cannot think of any time that people got mad because they did not understand the message Jesus gave. They got mad because their faith was intellectual only.

Whenever I hear people complain to me about their pastor or church I often ask them if they can name some people by name who are living for Jesus Christ because of their life. I always get a reaction. Most of the time their answer is the same. Silence. It is a quick way to silence complainers and troublemakers.

 

[jsn9333]

Although I think Wesley’s point is that people should not remain the same when we preach, because God's word is living, active and sharp.

Let me also say that I'm not even sure the quote is from Wesley... I don't trust anything I find on the internet unless a very specific citation is provided, one that I can use to go to a library and verify the quote. And most of the quotes out there give no such citation.

There are just too many "quotes" and things going around, especially of long dead people, that are completely baseless. Failure to confirm quotations is another mistake a very many pastors make, as long as we're being picky, and it only helps build the stereotype that conservatives are not very intellectually careful or even "able".

That being said, I don't even think the watered down point that people should change for the better or worse when we preach the gospel is supported by Scripture. I mean, certainly the Bible doesn't say people have to either get mad or get converted when the gospel is correctly preached. We've established that much. I don't see anywhere where it even says people need to change, per se. I think some people change, others don't. Some people keep right on living as if they didn't hear a word.

I don't mind practical teaching as opposed to pure intellectual teaching... but the practical should be based *clearly* in the unadulterated Scriptures of God. And the fact that the Word is living, active, and sharp just doesn't rationally lead to clear conclusion that people have to change when they hear it.

A lot of the notes people take in church, like "today the pastor said people should get mad or converted when I spread the gospel!" have nothing to do with the Bible at all. The only reason pastors keep saying them is because they get a reaction... pens start moving because the tidbits sound so practical and useful, when in reality they mean nothing (Biblically).

 

[gb93433]

I don't see anywhere where it even says people need to change, per se. I think some people change, others don't. Some people keep right on living as if they didn't hear a word.

I don't mind practical teaching as opposed to pure intellectual teaching... but the practical should be based *clearly* in the unadulterated Scriptures of God. And the fact that the Word is living, active, and sharp just doesn't rationally lead to clear conclusion that people have to change when they hear it.

I agree.

I think I understand your point in that I guess people could stay lukewarm. If I understand Rev. 2&3 right I do not see lukewarm as a good thing.

When I look at what Jesus preached I see the problems people had with him were not in understanding the message but in its proper application. From what I can tell Jesus never condemned anyone except the religionists of the day. They looked good on the outside but were dead inside.

 

[Bob Alkire]

The checks and balances have to do with distributing power, not with making sure the country is moral.
A country is only as strong as the checks it places on corruption... the morals have nothing to do with that.

We aren't doing a good job on placing checks on corruption. Corruption is in many cases the flip side of morals. So much of what was called corruption in the 40's and 50's isn't today. Some for the betterment and most not.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Does your Bible read differently than mine.

Mt. 9:37, "Then He said to His disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few."

No! Been trying to get the Word out here for years.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

RevMitchesll wrote: Despite what the political parties would like you to believe, the problem in America is not the politicians, it is the pulpits. I hate to break the news to you, but most of America’s pulpits are filled with cowardly men. They are a shame to the Christ they claim to serve.


There is some truth in your statement. Pastors are afraid to preach from the pupit

1. Against unjust wars and ignoring the words of the Prince of Peace.
2. The destruction of our environment.
3. The neglect of the elderly.
4. The neglect of the sick.
5. The pursuit of governmental policies that enrich the rich and improvish the poor.
6. The pornography that now passes as "normal" television.
7. The unhealthy eating/drinking habits of Americans, and thus the destruction of their "holy temples.
8. Against fear mongering by both preachers and politicians.

There, you have at least two months of sermon topics to preach on.

:BangHead:

Just saw this thread, but all I can say is AMEN and AMEN!!