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Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by OldRegular, Apr 13, 2005.

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  1. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Because of His grace.

    Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
    Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (ESV)
     
    #21 4His_glory, Apr 14, 2005
  2. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    ILUV,

    Care to define grace for us? Is it not the unmerited favor of God? If it is God's UNDESERVED favor, then when He chooses to display it, He does so not with repect to any person, since all are undeserving of it.
     
    #22 4His_glory, Apr 14, 2005
  3. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi 4Hisglory;
    Certainly Grace is favor however it is not unmereited if only a feww are able to have it.

    I asked why he only chooses some and your offer these scriptures.
    What does his grace have to do with an answer. Isn't God capable of giving grace to all? If not why not? According to the scriptures you presented are you suggesting I couldn't possibly understand so I get no answer at all. Try me, or say you simply don't know.
    Truth is it is God's will that all come to Him. Jn 12:32. You can't limit what is limitless.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
    #23 ILUVLIGHT, Apr 14, 2005
  4. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    The whole of creation is basking in God's Grace, meaning that he is witholding His Justice until the appointed time. Thus is it that God continues to show his favor to ALL mankind. Thus ALL mankind are God's elect!

    So where do you get off declaring to God that he must have his favorites, as with "selective election"?

    Look around, Get a paintball gun with red paintballs, and go shoot those who ARE NOT UNDER God's grace!
     
    #24 Wes Outwest, Apr 14, 2005
  5. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Certainly Grace is favor however it is not unmereited if only a feww are able to have it.

    I asked why he only chooses some and your offer these scriptures.
    What does his grace have to do with an answer. Isn't God capable of giving grace to all? If not why not? According to the scriptures you presented are you suggesting I couldn't possibly understand so I get no answer at all. Try me, or say you simply don't know.
    Truth is it is God's will that all come to Him. Jn 12:32. You can't limit what is limitless.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]I do not follow your reasoning regarding grace. It is unmerited if a few, or many recieve it. Which by the way Calvinist believe that the elect is an inumberable crowd.

    I do not know why God only elects some and not all. The verse I quoted prove that God's reason are beyond what we can comprehend. God does in a sense offer grace to all, because He does allow then to live on this earth. He does offer sunshine and rain. But He does not extend His saving grace to all.

    If it is God's will for all to come, then why do many not come?
     
    #25 4His_glory, Apr 14, 2005
  6. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    The whole of creation is basking in God's Grace, meaning that he is witholding His Justice until the appointed time. Thus is it that God continues to show his favor to ALL mankind. Thus ALL mankind are God's elect!

    So where do you get off declaring to God that he must have his favorites, as with "selective election"?

    Look around, Get a paintball gun with red paintballs, and go shoot those who ARE NOT UNDER God's grace!     </font>[/QUOTE]I never said that God must have his favorites. Keep my statements in context, it is bad enough that you have destroyed the context of Scripture numernous times.

    If God shows His favor to all mankind, then why do many not recieve salvation?
     
    #26 4His_glory, Apr 14, 2005
  7. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi 4Hisglory;
    But the verses you presented didn't address election at all. It is not sacrilege to ask why and God doesn't harbor secrets from us if He did no one could trust Him. This is why your answer isn't really an answer but an excuse for not knowing I agree that our God does not consider any man better than another neither do I. Which is why I do not consider election to be in particular of just a few. condemning the rest to hell. I believe God is Just and that all men have been elected for Salvation and if man through rebellion fails to meet the mark it is totally man's fault. Other wise if only the elect were saved then man has nothing to do with his own sin because he flatly could not choose anything else.
    Don't you see that if you have only a few chosen that it depicts the Father as a respecter of men. If men are chosen by some random method employed by God then our fate is left up to chance.
    We already know that true Israel is chosen and they reject the Father for the most part.

    Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles , for to provoke them to jealousy.
    Can't you see that all Have been chosen by this verse above. It doesn't say some Gentiles but speaks of us as a whole.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
    #27 ILUVLIGHT, Apr 14, 2005
  8. OSAS

    OSAS Member

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    Philippians 2:13 "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

    Ignoring the verse does not make it go away ILL.
     
    #28 OSAS, Apr 14, 2005
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    That statement completely contradicts the following:
    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    Ephesians 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

    If Salvation isn't offered to every single human being, then these verses are a lie.

    Please don't point me to Romans 9 and say, "God loved Jacob and hated Esau". Check out Genesis 36 and tell me Esau wasn't blessed. Both Jacob and Esau received blessings from God but only Jacob was chosen to be the lineage from which Christ would come thru Mary. That is not the same as Salvation.     </font>[/QUOTE]You need to look beyond Jacob and Esau in Romans 9.

    Romans 9:14-24
    14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
     
    #29 OldRegular, Apr 14, 2005
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I posted this on another thread but to help you understand election unto salvation in Jesus Christ I thought it worthwhile to post it here.

    "In reality all people deserve hell or eternal separation from God.

    However, God in His Sovereign Grace has chosen some out of this fallen mass unto salvation in Jesus Christ. These He has chosen He will, in His own good time, regenerate, pardon, effectually call and justify through faith in Jesus Christ, adopt as sons, sanctify, preserve in the palm of His hand, and finally glorify.

    The remainder He has left in their fallen state."     </font>[/QUOTE]Pure hogwash! Man made hogwash!

    It is the father's will that none, that is, any-out-of-all should perish but have everlasting life.     </font>[/QUOTE]Am I to understand that you believe in universal salvation?
     
    #30 OldRegular, Apr 14, 2005
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Philippians 2:13 "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

    Ignoring the verse does not make it go away ILL.     </font>[/QUOTE]Good point OSAS! [​IMG]
     
    #31 OldRegular, Apr 14, 2005
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