Andersonville Seminary

[UZThD]

Originally posted by Brice:
,

The posture of your response is disturbing.

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Here are some "postures" that disturb me:

1) Not getting ready to even begin to do credible doc work in Bible or theology by avoiding the learning experience of a credible ThM, and by avoiding learning the Biblical languages, and by avoiding the completion of a scholarly master's thesis which shows the ability to do doc work.

Being happy that you do not have to meet all of those nasty old prerequisites which are associated with beginning real ThD work. You can just jump right in..ready or not.

Then supposing somehow that avoiding all of those prereqs honors Christ.

[/qb]

This is my point. I've read nothing that makes me think this is his position.

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IF he continues to do that, then how is that not his position???

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It's possible that he made the best decision he could with the information he had. Not everyone has the same information you do. Not everyone knows about all the different seminary options out there.

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When I began doc work it was in a seminary which deceived applicants in regard to accreditation. After learning that real accreditation was not a sticker from Liverpool I dropped out and had to start over!!

Now Ian, and possibly others, have learned that some of Andersonville/s doc programs are jokes. We'll see if he after learning this will drop out or stay in.


I entered the American BC/Sem DMin in Bible. It then was TRACS accredited. After being in it a year ABCS lost its accreditation partly because the school lacked faculty with PhDs/ThDs to support a DMin major in Bible.

Not wanting a degree which in Christian academe [The TRACS officials] was considered below par, I dropped out and started over!!

Now Ian knows that Christian academics think that Andersonvillwe is FAR below par, we will see if he remain in the ATS DMin or not.

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I don't disagree with you on the quality of education at Andersonville. I do disagree with you implying negative things about his motive. I have seen nothing that makes me think his motivation is anything but Godly. I just say give him the benefit of the doubt. Attack the school, but not the man's motives.

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You may be right. Perhaps none of my comments about those who are content to get docs by doing 1/4 of the work fit Ian at all. So, let's see what Ian's future choices indicate about his present motives now that he knows the truth.

[ October 03, 2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
UZ


DTS is one of the schools listed as using their tapes (intended for M Div work) ...

God bless

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DTS gives an MDiv?

 

[Brice]

UZ,

Agree that he must now make the necessary adjustments. I hope he takes the information gathered here and makes the best decision for his life. I basically agree with your last post except one point. It seems to me that he stayed in the program until this point due to the fact that he already put in 4-5 yrs, not due to lack of academic rigor. You (and others) raise some great points and I hope he takes note of them and makes the right decision based on his circumstances.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by christianmilvet:
As a Bachelors student at Andersonville I have found the program to be outstanding.

Folks tend to overuse superlatives. What is your standard for comparison? How is Andersonville better than any other college/seminary that you can name?

The teachings of JESUS were viewed as wrong in HIS time.

I’m sorry but this is an invalid comparison. It means absolutely nothing. The implication seems to be that Andersonville is validated since Jesus’ teachings were not accepted. Bosh, nonsense! This is specious reasoning. Although Jesus’ teachings were TRUTH since He is God, a lot of false and spurious teachings have been recognized and denounced including the preceding statement.

Andersonville is not for everybody but neither is Harvard or Yale.

This is obvious!

If the LORD leads a person to Andersonville then who are we to question the decision to enroll there.

So, how do you know it is the Lord’s leading and not self-will or desire? It seems that God is blamed for leading people to do a lot of foolish things nowadays. I knew a preacher who ran away with one of the women in the church and said that God led him to do it so he could understand and counsel people having marital problems. I don’t believe it for one second! Do you?

Accreditation can be a very political process.

This is true but it is used as an excuse for substandard performance more often than not. At least, I see it this way in the case of Andersonville.

One of the institutions which the Rev. Billy Graham attended was not accredited when he was there.

Are you speaking of BJC or some other school? However, accreditation was a question of choice, not academics.

This has not in any way hindered the theology of Rev. Graham.

Billy is an evangelist, not a theologian. Yes, he does have some deficiencies that one probably would not have with a more extensive education. I doubt that Billy is qualified to teach theology in a rigorous seminary. Furthermore, he was not a particularly good college president at Northwestern Schools. Also, he has a large support staff that does research, etc. for him. Finally, he doesn’t have an Andersonville degree. George Whitefield didn’t graduate from an accredited college either.

When I was in prayer regarding an institution to enroll in, I saw problems with many of the distance learning schools supported by many of this Board.

Would you care to delineate the problems?

While considering all factors, I believe a person should allow the LORD to be the final determining factor in which program to enroll in.

Yes, but it is real easy to persuade myself that it is the Lord when it is me.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Exactly what I said and exactly what you said.

The tapes used through ATS do not get the class accredited by ATS, but the same tapes used through DTS will get the class accredited by ATS.

? ATS is either Andersonville Theological Seminary or Association of Theological Schools ... obsfucation is obsfucation.

When you use the institute of theological studies tapes through an ATS (Association of Theological Schools) accredited seminary they are accredited classes, but when used at andersonville they are not.

Same class, different school ...

No, it is not the same class. DTS has qualified instructors who can interact and deal with the taped lectures. ATS (i.e. Andersonville) has none. Furthermore, you will need to look at the tests and other learning activities required by DTS for credit. There is more to teaching than lecturing.

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by Brice:
UZ,

Agree that he must now make the necessary adjustments. I hope he takes the information gathered here and makes the best decision for his life. I basically agree with your last post except one point. It seems to me that he stayed in the program until this point due to the fact that he already put in 4-5 yrs, not due to lack of academic rigor. You (and others) raise some great points and I hope he takes note of them and makes the right decision based on his circumstances.

===

Brice, two points, no three:

1) I very much agree that accreditation takes a little work to understand , and that one who has never experienced the rigor of credible grad programs in Bible or Theology may not really be able to assess the rigor of the program in which he is enrolled.

So there is , I agree, much room to assume that Ian's motives for initially being at Andersonville were not unworthy.

I completed 45 semester units in grad English and Ed. at the Univ of san Diego and also 1/2 of the EdD coursework at Oregon State Univ. I promise you that the difficulty of that EdD work does not come close to the expectations of most of my profs in either the MA, MDiv, ThM, or ThD programs.

EG, I found reading and discussing Arminius in the MA quite difficult as well as Hebrew in the MDiv and the exegesis of the Greek NT in the ThM. The ThD research was much harder for me than the ThM coursework and thesis.

If anyone is in a grad program in Bible/Theology that is easy, I'd recommend to that one that he assess the substance of what he is doing.

2) It is always hard to fully know why our opinions are formed. So, possibly I was attacking Ian without a cause.

I felt that I was speaking out , on the behalf of the men and women who genuinely go through seven or more years (MDiv/DMin) of very difficult study, and saying that it is unfair, yes, unchristian to take such an easy route whereas they do the noble thing by completing programs only in credible schools.

3) We're I Ian, I would jump ship as I twice did with two schools (described above) . IMO Ian could do a real masters in two years at SATS and by then probably SATS would be "accredited" to offer the doc. "Ian, MTh, Dth."... Sounds good to me.

[Total cost about $1000 per yr.]

Cheap AND honest ; cannot be beaten !!!

 

[El_Guero]

sats? 7th day Adventist?

 

[Brice]

UZ,

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree

Looks like we are on the same page now my friend.

I hope people are able to read this thread and see the need for academic rigor. God Bless.

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
sats? 7th day Adventist?

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hehe... no, The South African Theological Seminary

 

[exscentric]

Ahh, "rigor" that which preceeds "mortis"

Be sure with all your rigor that you don't cause the congregation to become dead flesh and live up to the name of their seats PEWS

 

[Paul33]

No. The average congregation with the average Christian is already stinking up the church.

The ability to listen to and apply biblical principles is not much tolerated these days.

In my church, those whose grown children are not "living" for the Lord protest that I am not preaching eternal security. My answer: You have to be saved before you can be secure.

They want all of the emphasis to be on grace and none of it to be "through faith." James teaches clearly that faith works! Without a transformed life and a desire to please God, faith is merely intellectual assent to some aspect of truth.

Rigor? The church is already dead in many cases.

 

[Timtoolman]

I would add, many pastors are doing "agenda" preaching or "pulpit adminstration" instead of Spirit preaching.

 

[PatsFan]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
I would add, many pastors are doing "agenda" preaching or "pulpit adminstration" instead of Spirit preaching.

"Pulpit administration" really fits what I have also seen a lot from the pulpit too. I cringe when I sit in deacons meetings and hear deacons encouraging pastors to do this, as well. When did preaching become marketing?

 

[Trotter]

I would add, many pastors are doing "agenda" preaching or "pulpit administration" instead of Spirit preaching.

Reading three or four verses and then shouting your thoughts about anything that pops in your head for thirty minutes is not "Spirit preaching". It is called laziness and irresponsibility.

Whether a pastor is seminary educated or not, there is no excuse for not studying and preparing the word that God would have him speak. To step into the pulpit without a thought of what you are to say or where it is to go is shameful... but I have seen it happen way too many times.

 

[Charles E.Smith]

I think the school that Billy Graham went to that the poster was refering to was Florida Bible Institute (Now Trinity College). He does have an accredited degree from Wheaton though and to his credit doesn't use the honorary doctorates he's gotten to call himself "Dr.Graham" though others may do so. I think Rev.Graham is an example though that someone need not have a M Div to have an effective ministry.