Animals pre-fall in the Garden

[percho]

Well then Aaron, if you really interested and want a more complete answer to your question you'll just have to read John Walton's book, The Lost World of Genesis One, Ancient Cosmology and the Origins Debate. That's the topic the book deals with - and his other"Lost" books.

I know, it's a cop out for me but it's a topic developed much better in his books than I can ever express in a paragraph or two in a thread. Sorry.

Rob

I have not read the book. I read the Amazon page above, so I do not know how Walton deals with the chaos that God was putting in order.

That is the reason I asked from the scriptures which I posted, How was the sin of the devil from the beginning, whatever the beginning might have been, related to the chaos of which God was putting in order, that is the creation of the world {Kosmos} beginning at Gen 1:3 and how is that related to the sin of Adam?

Why was the earth without form and void in verse 2?
What did the darkness of verse 2 represent?
God is Light and there is no Darkness in him. 1 John 1:5
Did God divide himself from the Darkness on the earth of verse 2 calling the Light good, and the Darkness evil in verse 4?

Had the Devil in verse 2 already exercised his power of death, therefore now God was going to deal with the Devil by Creating the world (Kosmos) creating man in his image by which the Son of God could be manifested to destroy the works of the Devil?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

The first man Adam was created for the purpose of the last Adam destroying the works of the devil?

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:26

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46

The living soul was created carnal, sold under sin, subjected to the power of the Devil, in order that the Son of God could come into the world (Kosmos) in the image of the first man Adam to destroy the works and power of the Devil who had prior to Genesis 1:3 brought chaos to the earth?


Is this not what the scriptures show took place?

Please all wade in.

 

[percho]

I do.....do you? Let me guess, all animal life were vegetarians before the fall.

Yes. Well all but, Tyrannosaurus rex .

 

[quantumfaith]

Yes. Well all but, Tyrannosaurus rex .

Yep, my guess is Aaron thinks the 9 inch teeth of t-rex were probably just for consuming flora and perhaps grooming.

 

[Aaron]

I do.....

Of course you do, because you believe in death and struggle for millions of years prior to the evolution of Adam and Eve, of whom you really don't believe either.

Now, I know you SAY you do, but you really don't. You will huff and puff and act all indignant pretending to wonder how anyone can presume to know what you believe, but just calm down and I will tell you.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh . . . or in this case the finger typeth.

You have affirmed in past exchanges that you believe Adam and Eve had subhuman parents. That means that Eve could not have come from Adam, as is plainly attested in Genesis, and the fact of which is reaffirmed in the NT. Add to that the necessity of their having to have sprung into existence nearly simultaneously and then brought together and then endowed with human conscience, whether in the wombs of their surrogates or out is anybody's guess.

But you have also used all caps to speak of ADAM, by which you reveal that you believe Adam was more of an idea or concept than an individual. Darwinism forces the acceptance of that concept, because to insist that Adam and Eve were individual humans in the context of Evolution requires an incredulous series of naturalistic events punctuated by supernatural interventions of a nature that not even an 18th century Cherokee could swallow.

So . . .

You don't believe teeth and claws were designed. You believe they evolved in the context of millions of years of struggle and death. And that's an arbitrary assumption based on Darwinism, not on the revelation of God.

So, based on the revelation of God, are there other uses of teeth and claws, besides cutting and tearing other animals?

 

[Revmitchell]

Evolution = "has God said"

 

[quantumfaith]

Evolution = "has God said"

That's good. :thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

Of course you do, because you believe in death and struggle for millions of years prior to the evolution of Adam and Eve, of whom you really don't believe either.

Now, I know you SAY you do, but you really don't. You will huff and puff and act all indignant pretending to wonder how anyone can presume to know what you believe, but just calm down and I will tell you.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh . . . or in this case the finger typeth.

You have affirmed in past exchanges that you believe Adam and Eve had subhuman parents. That means that Eve could not have come from Adam, as is plainly attested in Genesis, and the fact of which is reaffirmed in the NT. Add to that the necessity of their having to have sprung into existence nearly simultaneously and then brought together and then endowed with human conscience, whether in the wombs of their surrogates or out is anybody's guess.

But you have also used all caps to speak of ADAM, by which you reveal that you believe Adam was more of an idea or concept than an individual. Darwinism forces the acceptance of that concept, because to insist that Adam and Eve were individual humans in the context of Evolution requires an incredulous series of naturalistic events punctuated by supernatural interventions of a nature that not even an 18th century Cherokee could swallow.

So . . .

You don't believe teeth and claws were designed. You believe they evolved in the context of millions of years of struggle and death. And that's an arbitrary assumption based on Darwinism, not on the revelation of God.

So, based on the revelation of God, are there other uses of teeth and claws, besides cutting and tearing other animals?

Yes I am convinced that life and death existed before the fall. But I don't huff and puff and please don't be so childish. I believe they (tooth and claws) were both designed and evolved to perform what they were needed for. I suspect that you still do not understand distinctions outside of your narrowly confined box of creation.

Are there multiple uses for hearing? Multiple uses for eyesight?

What is "encouraging" to me is that even folk from your side of theological aisle are beginning to converse about such and admit that perhaps they haven't always gotten things correct. Look to what RC Sproul says relative to the age of earth and cosmos.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H19A4FY/?tag=baptis04-20

I do know how difficult sacred cows can be difficult to digest.

 

[Aaron]

Are there multiple uses for hearing?

Multiple uses for eyesight?

I don't use my eyes and ears like tools, but I have used my nails and teeth so.

The original question was why fangs and claws if not to kill? So, in that vein, why eyes if not to think upon maidens? Why ears if not to hear lies? Why hands if not to strangle? Why intelligence if not to devise evil?