Anne Graham Lotz Preaching to Evagelists

[Molly]

It is not being led by God(the holy spirit) if it contradicts God's written word.

Anything anyone does can be labelled,God led me to do this...so it has to line up with scripture to be true.

 

[dianetavegia]

Well said Molly!

Diane

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Molly:
It is not being led by God(the holy spirit) if it contradicts God's written word.

I agree, but whether a woman is allowed to speak TODAY in church is of debate. Several folks, like I, believe that Paul's reference to a woman speaking in church was specific to a specific church and a specific time, and what we need to know is why he said that to them. There are no additional biblical references to suppor the idea that it applies to women in the church today. Paul did make a distinction in several verses that there are items he writes of that are authoritative (from God) in nature, and items that are administrative (Paul's guidelines, not edicts, on how a specific church is to operate). I believe that Paul's words regarding women and the church are the latter.

In the mean time, I don't see anything wrong with denominations deciding for themselves whether or not it's appropriate. I don't think the SBC has ruled out women preachers, though I don't recall any SBC women pastors ever being ordained.

 

[Major B]

<<If you aren’t willing to study up on the subject, there’s little I can do to change your mind.>>

I have studied up on the subject. I have read lots of folks on your side (the Kruegers, for instance). I have not read Ellis, and am unlikely to this summer, given my reading list to prepare for my fall lectures and my PhD program.

I was not accusing you or them of advocating homosexuality, etc., but merely that the theological methods I have seen to try to deny what the NT teaches on women pastors, when applied in other areas, get results that are not very healthy.

Have you read Grudem, Piper, et. al., of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, whose board includes MacArthur, Patterson, Stanley, Swindoll, and lots of others too numerous to mention? If you have, more power to you. Just because I have not read everyone with whom I disagree doesn't mean I haven't done my homework. If I had to read all the moderate and liberal writers, I'd never have time to read the stuff I can actually use.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Major B:
I have studied up on the subject. I have read lots of folks on your side (the Kruegers, for instance).

Actually, I don’t know who the Kruegers are… I strongly suspect you haven’t read those “on my side” because I don’t follow the popular arguments of those who typically support women in ministry.

There is more than one opinion and interpretation that supports women in vocational ministry you know.

I have not read Ellis, and am unlikely to this summer, given my reading list to prepare for my fall lectures and my PhD program.

That’s extremely unfortunate.

I was not accusing you or them of advocating homosexuality, etc., but merely that the theological methods I have seen to try to deny what the NT teaches on women pastors, when applied in other areas, get results that are not very healthy.

Your comment betrays the fact that you don’t have a clue about my position. Again, my perspective does not deny any part of the New Testament, but rather embraces the complete teachings of Paul on women and ministry.

Have you read Grudem, Piper, et. al., of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, whose board includes MacArthur, Patterson, Stanley, Swindoll, and lots of others too numerous to mention? If you have, more power to you.

I have read material from quite a few of those people, and many more, and questioned a number of people from both sides about their views. Remember, I used to be on your “side” of the issue and rather mercilessly questioned those who advocated women in vocational ministry. Frankly, I found that many of them didn’t have a strong grasp of the New Testament teachings of Paul.

Just because I have not read everyone with whom I disagree doesn't mean I haven't done my homework. If I had to read all the moderate and liberal writers, I'd never have time to read the stuff I can actually use.

Ellis is not a moderate or liberal writer. Not even close.

He is a five-point Calvinist and is extremely committed to scripture. He teaches at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and is well regarded by the administration and students.

 

[Speedpass]

This is what bugs me: If Kay Arthur, Beth Moore, et al, can speak at SBC evangelism conferences and similar events at the state and associational level, why make a fuss about Anne Graham Lotz doing likewise

 

[Molly]

I don't think Kay Arthur and Beth Moore should do that either!

 

[dianetavegia]

When has Kay Arthur spoken to the SBC? Her 'devil made me do it' mentality is way off SBC base!

Diane