annihilation of the body and spirit is Hell?

[Bible Believing Bill]

Originally posted by post-it I also believe hell is just the annihilation of the body and spirit

Ok post-it does not believe in a literal Hell. How many others don't and how do you reconcile that belief with the Bible.

All scripture quoted from KJV
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

These are only a few places that the Bible talks about Hell. The word Hell is used 54 times in the Bible, and Lake of Fire 4 times. Are those of you who don't believe in a literal Hell saying that God mentioned Hell 58 times and its not real?

Can someone show me some scripture that says Hell is just the annihilation of the body and spirit of the body and spirit?

Bill

 

[TheOliveBranch]

This is Jehovah's Witness doctrine. They try to use many verses, but they first had to remove the word "hell" from the Bible. Take out your KJV and they will tell you how they can't use that "mis-translated" Bible. They then procede to take out their "better" version.

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

I have heard the JWs try to make this case, but the quote at the top of my post was posted by a BAPTIST in another thread. I would like to know how a Baptist can believe it.

Bill

 

[Justified]

I thought that this was a Baptist Board, not a Jehovah's Witness Board!

TWO major flaws with the annihilation beliefs.

1) God said eternal separation, Wailing and gnashing of teeth, and so on. Many more will be brought out, I'm sure.

2) If there wasn't a Hell to spend eternity, then there wouldn't be any reason for any one to want to get saved. I mean if all that were going to happen is, we were just going to die, then why not live like the devil? If we are just going to be annihilated, we are not going to remember anyway!

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

[Justified]

Originally posted by post-it I also believe hell is just the annihilation of the body and spirit

This is the first BAPTIST(?), that I have ever seen that didn't believe in a literal HELL!

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

[cojosh]

I don't see how anyone who has read the scriptures can believe the doctrine of annihilation, unless they're reading a perverted anti-teachings-of-Christ piece of trash.

 

[TheOliveBranch]

This is also a belief that has cropped in since the watered down versions are being more readily accepted in the Baptist Churches. This is how the JW's have been able to produce their own version.

Sad day to see this disgraceful belief believed by someone who calls himself a Baptist. The association with this type almost makes one want to... never mind.

 

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Justified:
This is the first BAPTIST(?), that I have ever seen that didn't believe in a literal HELL!

It won't be the last in these wanton last days.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Justified:
If there wasn't a Hell to spend eternity, then there wouldn't be any reason for any one to want to get saved.

Sure there would be! A loving God has called us into a love relationship with Him (and our brothers and sisters in Christ) for all eternity. Love is certainly a good reason to "get saved", "come to faith", "follow Jesus", "become a Christian" or whatever you want to call it.

I mean if all that were going to happen is, we were just going to die, then why not live like the devil?

This line of thinking is similar to the "why shouldn't we sin if God will forgive us" line of reasoning...

If we are just going to be annihilated, we are not going to remember anyway!

Remember? We won't even exist!!

Seriously though, I think the problem a lot of people who hold to annihilationist thinking have is that they can't reconcile the concept of a loving God and eternal punishment. And for some the very idea that sinners (and sin) will exist for all eternity would be a stain on the new heaven and new earth. They probably see it as God not completing His destruction of sin. Furthermore, I've read that people who hold this view often believe that the concept of a soul existing for all eternity came from Greek philosophy, not originally from the Jewish/Christian heritage.

While I can't agree with annihilationist views, I can understand the philosophical concerns. But frankly, I find it easier to believe in an eternal hell than an eternal heaven because I know I don't deserve the good things of God. But I (and a world full of people like me) have participated in sins which hurt ourselves and others. Hell is just the natural, progressive result of humankind being left to our own devices. With all of the child porn, murders, terrorist, self-righteous "Christians", corrupt politicians, etc. in the world, there has to be some consequences...

 

[Justified]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:

Originally posted by Justified:
If there wasn't a Hell to spend eternity, then there wouldn't be any reason for any one to want to get saved.

Baptist Believer,

I don't know why you posted what you did and the way you did it, but, I am a literal believer in enternal hell fire and damnation.

When I first heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and heard about the consequences of not trusting in His shed blood, it scared the living daylights right out of me!

I was 33 years old, and even though I was a RCC, I still knew that I was going to Hell, because I knew that I was living in sin. But, when the Pastor explained what Hell really was, I got scared and prayed the sinners prayer, just so I wouldn't go to Hell.

The thing of this is, I knew that I didn't get saved, I just didn't want to go to Hell. I didn't understand the love that God had extended to us from Heaven through His Son, Jesus Christ.

For the next 10 weeks I tried everything to live a sinless life and I knew I was failing miserablely, and I was not a happy camper, either!

I kept asking the Pastor: When will I know for sure?

Well, after 10 weeks of the most miserable life that ever was, the Holy Spirit opened my heart, and I accepted the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, and was Gloriously saved on April 10th, 1983 at 8:00PM.

The point of this story of my salvation is, that before, I knew I was going to Hell, but I didn't understand what Hell was, so it didn't bother me! It wasn't until someone showed me from the Bible, that all of a sudden, it put the fear of "HELL" in me!

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Justified:
I don't know why you posted what you did and the way you did it, but, I am a literal believer in enternal hell fire and damnation.

... when the Pastor explained what Hell really was, I got scared and prayed the sinners prayer, just so I wouldn't go to Hell.

The thing of this is, I knew that I didn't get saved, I just didn't want to go to Hell. I didn't understand the love that God had extended to us from Heaven through His Son, Jesus Christ.

There's certainly many different reasons why people respond to the gospel message, but I certainly hope that you believe that Divine love could be an attraction.

Unfortunately, I think Baptists often preach Jesus as fire insurance instead of God extending His love to humankind. Both are true and both should be taught... I'm afraid us theological "conservatives" tend to put more emphasis on the negative because we think it will get better "results."

 

[Justified]

Baptist Believer,

OK, I see what you are getting at. And yes! I agree with you, that there are those who would be attracted by the Divine Love of God!

Along those lines of witnessing, is why it is so important to pray before witnessing to someone. That way you should be lead by the Lord on how to witness to a particular person and/or persons.

Thank You!

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I heard Brother Richard Mosher preach a hell-fire & brimstone sermon in a tent service once. Even I was shaking. Lots of folks came to know the Lord that night.

Different messages speak to different people. Folks who are scared into Christianity are just as saved as those who are "loved" into it.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Justified:
OK, I see what you are getting at. And yes! I agree with you, that there are those who would be attracted by the Divine Love of God!

Amen! Glad to see we understand each other.

Along those lines of witnessing, is why it is so important to pray before witnessing to someone. That way you should be lead by the Lord on how to witness to a particular person and/or persons.

Very true. Better yet, ask God each day to help you discern witnessing opportunities while you go about your daily grind. I ask God to put the right words in my mouth that will open a conversation about spiritual things.

On occasion I will make a "mindless" comment that touches on something the other person has been working through secretly. Suddenly they hear a "word" through me that speaks to their inner needs and I have a powerful witnessing opportunity without even realizing that the Spirit was slipping something into my conversation! I've had this occur on a number of occasions. God has a mysterious way of working through us.

Thank You!

No, thank you for your gracious response.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
I heard Brother Richard Mosher preach a hell-fire & brimstone sermon in a tent service once. Even I was shaking. Lots of folks came to know the Lord that night.

Different messages speak to different people. Folks who are scared into Christianity are just as saved as those who are "loved" into it.

Yep. It probably depends a lot upon your religious background (if any) and the respectability of your sins. For me, it was a combination of things. For a few years I had been concerned about what would happen when I died, but that was not enough to motivate me to trust God. I believed in Hell but I knew that it was not likely that I would die soon. Instead I wanted to live life my own way, fool around with girls (I was a hot-blooded teenager) and "enjoy" life. But one evening I heard a sermon that wasn't talking about hell, sin or punishment. It was talking about Jesus the Great Shepherd. I heard about the love of God for me and that started an landslide in my mountain of excuses. Five days later I heard another sermon at a "coffee house" ministry where the preacher talked about faith using the illustration of Peter stepping out of the boat to follow Jesus on the water. Even though Peter started to sink, Jesus raised him up again and brought him safely through. The preacher said that it was the same way when we respond to Jesus... We step out on faith knowing that Jesus is going to have to rescue us and carry us to safety. When we give ourselves to Jesus, He will watch over us and provide rescue when we need it.

That was enough. I trusted myself to the One who loved me with a love stronger than I could imagine.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

In complete agreement. Thanx for your testimony. Mine is on the testimony thread.

It was an old Billy Graham sermon about what will happen when we die, and the questions people ask that got me thinking about salvation, but a simple little TV commercial about the love from Jesus that got me on my knees asking to be saved.

I believe there are times when both messages are appropriate.

 

[hrhema]

You can preach love and many will respond. Then you can preach the Love of God and no one responds. You can preach Hell, Fire and Brimstone and have great response then again you can preach the same thing and it not move anyone.

I have seen many a person be scared into a decision but they really were not making the real decision because they did not stay. Then I have seen many who were scared who have been a Christian for many years now.

I met a group of people who believed in Annihilation. They also believed in soul sleep.
Did not believe in the Trinity. Believed Jesus and the Archangel Michael was one and the same.
They believed in perfectionism and they denied the existence of a devil and no they were not Jehovah Witnesses. They were a group that came from many different churches including Baptist churches. They believe that God may or may not resurrect you. The only way you can obtain a final resurrection is when you reach perfection. They believe a select group will be raised during the millenium to obtain and achieve perfection but they will still be in their human bodies.
Believe it or not this same message is creeping in among many believers across the country.

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

GREAT DISCUSSION! However I do notice that no one who believes in annihilation has come forward to support that belief. Kinda makes you wonder if they can.

Bill

 

[Elder Marty]

When our children are small and loose a pet to death, we often are tempted and then do tell them that the pet is in heaven when we no better. We know that the earth and all creatures will be consumed by the fire of God. That is annihilation. Now, I can forgive a child for believing in a puppy dog heaven, but when grown mean preach a puppy dog hell......

[ August 16, 2002, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Elder Marty ]

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Where did puppy dogs enter into the disucssion? We are talking about a literal Hell for God's Children. Elder Marty do you believe in a literal Heaven and Hell for humans?

Bill