Another man beaten to death

[Don]

Latest update:

"It was his actions of taking aggressive, physical stands and his refusal to be cooperative with investigation that led officers to believe he needed to be detained," Chief Stillings said.

http://www.newson6.com/story/247558...t-news-conference-concerning-in-custody-death

According to this article, they reviewed the cell phone video and attempted to return the cellphone to the wife.

Gina, I have a question: If it comes out that detectives investigating this say the video corroborates the statement from Chief Stillings, what then?

 

[poncho]

I don't how others here are affected by a sudden rush of adrenaline maybe I'm the exception but I just can't turn it on and off in the blink of an eye.

Yet this is what we're all expected to do when confronted by police in a moment of high stress. Seems like they might take that into account before putting hands on people or shooting them with tasers or bullets.

 

[Gina B]

That was not a very well thought out press conference. I have a feeling that the camera stare coupled with "He took an aggressive stance" is going to become very famous, very soon in negative relation to stories like this in the future.
A few bucks spent on being coached by a public relations specialist would have been well spent on a mess like this, if only not to offend people while dealing with a sensitive public perception issue.

 

[Don]

That was not a very well thought out press conference. I have a feeling that the camera stare coupled with "He took an aggressive stance" is going to become very famous, very soon in negative relation to stories like this in the future.
A few bucks spent on being coached by a public relations specialist would have been well spent on a mess like this, if only not to offend people while dealing with a sensitive public perception issue.

And if it comes out that the investigation supports the chief's statements--what then?

 

[poncho]

Poncho - you should have posted that as a separate thread. When you mix them like this, it dilutes the over-arching message.

Have you seen how well my "Don't talk to cops" thread was received Don? http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=92083

The whole self appointed Baptist Board censorship gang jumped in to derail it hijack it and shut the discussion down. Sheesh. Seems they don't like anyone knowing what their rights are and how to use them to protect themselves from the "authorities".

There's no longer any doubt they aren't on the side of the American citizen, constitution or freedom.

 

[Gina B]

Latest update:

http://www.newson6.com/story/247558...t-news-conference-concerning-in-custody-death

According to this article, they reviewed the cell phone video and attempted to return the cellphone to the wife.

Gina, I have a question: If it comes out that detectives investigating this say the video corroborates the statement from Chief Stillings, what then?

Then I'd say show the evidence to the public, and ask for as many witnesses as possible.
The police are being questioned in this as having done something wrong. People aren't going to have faith in them saying "no we didn't" if some other type of evidence isn't presented. (or will they? guess it depends on how inquisitive and trusting/untrusting people in that area are)

Why do you seem distrustful of the daughter? What if the video corroborates her statements? What then?

I can understand that as a former officer, you would feel defensive of one position, but please don't let that stop you from considering both sides.

 

[poncho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T30mW7Mja4s

Works fine on both my smart phones and tablet.

 

[Don]

Then I'd say show the evidence to the public, and ask for as many witnesses as possible.
The police are being questioned in this as having done something wrong. People aren't going to have faith in them saying "no we didn't" if some other type of evidence isn't presented. (or will they? guess it depends on how inquisitive and trusting/untrusting people in that area are)

Why do you seem distrustful of the daughter? What if the video corroborates her statements? What then?

I can understand that as a former officer, you would feel defensive of one position, but please don't let that stop you from considering both sides.

You misunderstand; it's my former experience that causes me to wait to make judgments until I have all--or as many as possible--the available facts.

Do I distrust the daughter? Of course. I don't know her, or anything about her propensity to lie. Neither do you--but your dislike of policemen is blinding you to this fact.

But I also recognize that policemen can be wrong. You'll recall that in the other thread about the boy who was shot, I stated that even though we (the public) still don't have the whole story, the officer who shot jumped the use of force ladder quite a bit. It is my opinion that deadly force was unnecessary.

I have no problem condemning incorrect actions; just as I have no problem condemning jumping to conclusions.

 

[Don]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T30mW7Mja4s

Works fine on both my smart phones and tablet.

Poncho--it's not my smart phone or computers that have a problem. It's my internet connection. You obviously have cable internet, and can enjoy the luxury of unfettered internet access (at least, until all the ISPs turn to tiered access plans).

I, however, live in a rural area and depend upon satellite for my internet. The satellite companies already work on the tiered access model; once I reach a certain bandwidth limit (which is reacjed quite quickly by watching a few shows on Netflix or my kids playing online games), my internet connection is "throttled" and slows way down. At that point, in order to watch YouTube or play online games, we have to logon between midnight and 5:00am. And sorry, but that doesn't happen much.

In order to get anything close to your cable internet connection, I would have to pay well in excess of $100/month. And I just don't have the money for that.

So if there are written summaries of the videos, those will always be appreciated.

 

[Gina B]

You misunderstand; it's my former experience that causes me to wait to make judgments until I have all--or as many as possible--the available facts.

Do I distrust the daughter? Of course. I don't know her, or anything about her propensity to lie. Neither do you--but your dislike of policemen is blinding you to this fact.

But I also recognize that policemen can be wrong. You'll recall that in the other thread about the boy who was shot, I stated that even though we (the public) still don't have the whole story, the officer who shot jumped the use of force ladder quite a bit. It is my opinion that deadly force was unnecessary.

I have no problem condemning incorrect actions; just as I have no problem condemning jumping to conclusions.

Why on earth would you say that I dislike police officers?

Distrust for ever-increasing heavy handed methods from the powers that be does not equate to dislike of all the people in one division of one sector.

 

[Don]

Why on earth would you say that I dislike police officers?

Distrust for ever-increasing heavy handed methods from the powers that be does not equate to dislike of all the people in one division of one sector.

My fault; meant distrust, but wrote dislike. Sorry.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I want to understand where you're coming from, Gina. I'm being genuine here -- I always am, though you and Poncho seem to doubt that for some reason.

Why do you distrust the police? I don't want an account based on what you read. I've seen those. What I want is as personal an answer as you can give, which obviously is going to depend on how self-aware you are. So could you please try to answer that question for me? Thanks.

 

[poncho]

Poncho--it's not my smart phone or computers that have a problem. It's my internet connection. You obviously have cable internet, and can enjoy the luxury of unfettered internet access (at least, until all the ISPs turn to tiered access plans).

I, however, live in a rural area and depend upon satellite for my internet. The satellite companies already work on the tiered access model; once I reach a certain bandwidth limit (which is reacjed quite quickly by watching a few shows on Netflix or my kids playing online games), my internet connection is "throttled" and slows way down. At that point, in order to watch YouTube or play online games, we have to logon between midnight and 5:00am. And sorry, but that doesn't happen much.

In order to get anything close to your cable internet connection, I would have to pay well in excess of $100/month. And I just don't have the money for that.

So if there are written summaries of the videos, those will always be appreciated.

I know that Don. I posted the thing about smart phones so that those who would like to stream live video from their phone instead of storing recorded videos in their phone could. It's harder to confiscate what's already on the internet.

I look for transcripts and articles you can read to go along with the videos I post when you ask me to. Most times it's slim pickins though.

 

[Don]

I know that Don. I posted the thing about smart phones so that those who would like to stream live video from their phone instead of storing recorded in their phone could. It's harder to confiscate what's already on the internet.

I look for transcripts and articles you can read to go along with the videos I post when you ask me to. Most times it's slim pickins though.

Ah, okay. Understood. Thanks.

 

[poncho]

I want to understand where you're coming from, Gina. I'm being genuine here -- I always am, though you and Poncho seem to doubt that for some reason.

Why do you distrust the police? I don't want an account based on what you read. I've seen those. What I want is as personal an answer as you can give, which obviously is going to depend on how self-aware you are. So could you please try to answer that question for me? Thanks.

It's necessary.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/18/what-do-i-know-about-corrupt-cops-my-fam

That's enough reason to give extra thought to every job, tool, power, legal protection, and consideration given to police officers. And it's reason to turn a skeptical eye on the people we've hired to keep the peace. Because, in the end, the only people watching the watchers are those realistic enough to admit that it's necessary.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

It's necessary.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/18/what-do-i-know-about-corrupt-cops-my-fam

That's enough reason to give extra thought to every job, tool, power, legal protection, and consideration given to police officers. And it's reason to turn a skeptical eye on the people we've hired to keep the peace. Because, in the end, the only people watching the watchers are those realistic enough to admit that it's necessary.

With due respect, Ponch, I didn't ask you. I know why you don't. I can't help but notice Gina hasn't answered, though she's been online and has presumably seen the post.

 

[poncho]

With due respect, Ponch, I didn't ask you. I know why you don't. I can't help but notice Gina hasn't answered, though she's been online and has presumably seen the post.

With due respect, TND, am I not to be allowed to have a say about my own beliefs?

From what you've posted so far it looks to me like you believe I just hate cops for no reason or at least that's what you'd like others to believe about me.

It's far from true of course.

It's been a tradition in America to distrust those placed in power over us since the colonial days and that distrust was in part due to why we have a written constitution and a bill of rights today.

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." Thomas Jefferson

“It would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights: that confidence is every where the parent of despotism, free government is founded in jealousy and not in confidence, it is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust with power that our constitution has accordingly so fixed the limits to which and no further our confidence may go …In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." Thomas Jefferson

"When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property." Thomas Jefferson

Some of us still believe these notions to be true even if they are seen as radical by those who tend put to much trust in men and government today.

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of power; but they cannot justify it, even if we were sure that they existed. It is hardly too strong to say, that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intention, real or pretended. …Human beings, we may be assured, will generally exercise power when they can get it; and they will exercise it most undoubtedly, in popular governments, under pretences of public safety or high public interest. It may be very possible that good intentions do really sometimes exist when constitutional restraints are disregarded. There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters.” Daniel Webster

Has the nature of man or the natural tendency of government to become corrupt changed since the founding of our republic?

"It's the old problem of "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"—"Who watches the watchmen?" The more you give the watchmen to do, the more tempting it becomes to corrupt them, and for them to let themselves be corrupted. And the more temptation for corruption, the more the likelihood that such temptation is the main attraction for people who want to be watchmen." J.D. Tuccille

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” Thomas Jefferson

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

With due respect, TND, am I not to be allowed to have a say about my own beliefs?

Sorry. You're right. Even though I know what they are. I'm just wondering why Gina hasn't responded. No offense.

 

[Gina B]

The video from the woman was released. It doesn't start until he is already not moving. The video from the theater hasn't been released.

http://www.news9.com/story/24815189/lawyer-releases-video-of-mans-death-in-police-custody-in-moore

Another death happened in custody just the other day. Looks like that police department is not having a great time lately. Also on multiple news sites and looking like people are questioning it: http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomane...ies-investigate-inmate-death-at-jail/24630216

 

[poncho]

Only anti government types and liberals would question the death of a person in police custody.