Another one of Paul’s hidden conditions for salvation

[evangelist-7]

Concerning the thread which was closed down apres uno momento, entitled:
"BACs must endure in their faith to the end to be saved" ...
I would like to share one of my favorites in "The Really-Ignored Passages" category.

There are many “somewhat hidden” spiritual truths in Scripture!

IMO, this is the best one that confirms of all of those OP verses in the closed thread
concerning the necessity of enduring to the end to be saved …

Luke 14:25-33
Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,
brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not
sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it —
lest, after he has laid the foundation, is not able to finish, all who see it
begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?
Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not
sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him
who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other
is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

People who think that Jesus is going to do any of the following for them are sadly mistaken:
-- endure with their faith to the end of their lives
-- hate their lives and their families
-- bear their crosses
-- come after Himself
-- sit down and count the cost of discipleship
-- forsake all that they have
.

 

[DHK]

Concerning the thread which was closed down apres uno momento, entitled:
"BACs must endure in their faith to the end to be saved" ...
I would like to share one of my favorites in "The Really-Ignored Passages" category.

There are many “somewhat hidden” spiritual truths in Scripture!

IMO, this is the best one that confirms of all of those OP verses in the closed thread
concerning the necessity of enduring to the end to be saved …

Luke 14:25-33
Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,
brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not
sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it —
lest, after he has laid the foundation, is not able to finish, all who see it
begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?
Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not
sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him
who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other
is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

People who think that Jesus is going to do any of the following for them are sadly mistaken:
-- endure with their faith to the end of their lives
-- hate their lives and their families
-- bear their crosses
-- come after Himself
-- sit down and count the cost of discipleship
-- forsake all that they have
.

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,
brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

Have you noticed the last two words of that passage there. They are "my disciple." It does not say BAC, as you like to abbreviate it, or Christian, or believer. It is not speaking of salvation. It is speaking of discipleship. That is a whole different kettle of fish. First a person must be saved, and then baptized, and then he goes on to be a disciple of Christ. Discipleship is a process; one of sanctification. A disciple is a follower of Christ. It is a lifetime journey. It has nothing to do with justification or salvation which takes place but once in the life of a believer.

"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God."

 

[evangelist-7]

Have you noticed the last two words of that passage there. They are "my disciple." It does not say BAC, as you like to abbreviate it, or Christian, or believer. It is not speaking of salvation. It is speaking of discipleship. That is a whole different kettle of fish. First a person must be saved, and then baptized, and then he goes on to be a disciple of Christ. Discipleship is a process; one of sanctification. A disciple is a follower of Christ. It is a lifetime journey. It has nothing to do with justification or salvation which takes place but once in the life of a believer.

Yes, I've heard this for years ... and I used to buy into it ...
but not any more ... and only for the reason that:

-- there are Scriptures which warn of losing "eternal life"
-- there are Scriptures which say what to do (other than believe) to gain "eternal life"
-- there are Scriptures which say what to do (other than believe) to avoid "eternal death"
etc.

Thou hast seen them all, but hast "chosen" to ignore them!

And if I posted 'em again, you would probably freeze the thread (due to repetition).

Praise the Lord, oh my soul.
.

 

[steaver]

Yes, I've heard this for years ... and I used to buy into it ...
but not any more ... and only for the reason that:

-- there are Scriptures which warn of losing "eternal life"
-- there are Scriptures which say what to do (other than believe) to gain "eternal life"
-- there are Scriptures which say what to do (other than believe) to avoid "eternal death"
etc.

Thou hast seen them all, but hast "chosen" to ignore them!

And if I posted 'em again, you would probably freeze the thread (due to repetition).

Praise the Lord, oh my soul.
.

Have you received the Gift of Eternal Life?

Romans 11:29 - "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable".

1John5:11 - "And the testimony is this, that God has given (Past Tense) us eternal life, and this life is in His Son".

John4:10 - "Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”


John5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has (Present Tense) eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life".

Eph2:8 - "For by grace you have been saved (Past Tense) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

Romans 11:29 - "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Let the reader of this debate understand clearly from the Scriptures that there is no such thing as "Forgiveness revoked". "Forgiveness Revoked" is but an attack upon God's promise to keep those whom He has given Eternal Life. It is the abuse of a Parable in a desperate attempt to war against the teaching that a Child of God is kept by the power of God (1Pt1:5).

 

[preacher4truth]

Have you received the Gift of Eternal Life?

Romans 11:29 - "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable".

1John5:11 - "And the testimony is this, that God has given (Past Tense) us eternal life, and this life is in His Son".

John4:10 - "Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”


John5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has (Present Tense) eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life".

Eph2:8 - "For by grace you have been saved (Past Tense) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

Romans 11:29 - "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Let the reader of this debate understand clearly from the Scriptures that there is no such thing as "Forgiveness revoked". "Forgiveness Revoked" is but an attack upon God's promise to keep those whom He has given Eternal Life. It is the abuse of a Parable in a desperate attempt to war against the teaching that a Child of God is kept by the power of God (1Pt1:5).

Good job. Imagine the paranoia of those who preach a false message of losing salvation. One has said on here that if we do not confess every sin and do these things we'll go to hell for that unconfessed sin. The problem with that is we have sins we don't even know we've committed. We know Jesus died for sins, all of them, past, present, future. Now, what these will say is that we say that so we can live in sin. Not even close to the truth. These with whom you are engaging dialogue cannot discern passages dealing with the sheep from those dealing with goats.

 

[steaver]

Concerning the thread which was closed down apres uno momento, entitled:
"BACs must endure in their faith to the end to be saved" ...
I would like to share one of my favorites in "The Really-Ignored Passages" category.

There are many “somewhat hidden” spiritual truths in Scripture!

IMO, this is the best one that confirms of all of those OP verses in the closed thread
concerning the necessity of enduring to the end to be saved …

Luke 14:25-33
Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,
brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not
sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it —
lest, after he has laid the foundation, is not able to finish, all who see it
begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?
Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not
sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him
who comes against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other
is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

People who think that Jesus is going to do any of the following for them are sadly mistaken:
-- endure with their faith to the end of their lives
-- hate their lives and their families
-- bear their crosses
-- come after Himself
-- sit down and count the cost of discipleship
-- forsake all that they have
.

1Cr2:1-16
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6
¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Let the readers of this debate understand from the Scripture that there is NO such thing as Paul carefully hiding things from ANY of God's children, rather the exact opposite is true as we can clearly read from the Scripture. Paul and the other Apostles teach God's children through very clear messages, working with the Holy Spirit working in each and every born-again child of God, so you may freely know what God has given us.

Do not be deceived by any outside sources which directly contradict what the Apostle Paul has told you concerning this "hidden message" lies. This is antichrist in nature. God freely gives to His children all understanding through His Apostles and the baptism of the Holy Spirit you received when you first believed. Stay close to the faith once delivered unto the saints and do not let any of these man-made traditions shipwreck your faith.

God speed to all of you truly born of God children out there!!! Blessings!!

 

[evangelist-7]

One has said on here that if we do not confess every sin and do these things
we'll go to hell for that unconfessed sin. The problem with that is
we have sins we don't even know we've committed.
We know Jesus died for sins, all of them, past, present, future.
Now, what these will say is that we say that so we can live in sin.
Not even close to the truth.
These with whom you are engaging dialogue cannot discern passages
dealing with the sheep from those dealing with goats.

Would thou likest to speaketh to this passage?

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:7-10)

Hint: John wrote this to Christians. End of hint.

Or, would thou preferest to just ignore it ...
like a good little Baptist who ignores all kinds of Scriptures?
.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Would thou likest to speaketh to this passage?

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:7-10)

Hint: John wrote this to Christians. End of hint.

Or, would thou preferest to just ignore it ...
like a good little Baptist who ignores all kinds of Scriptures?
.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Would thou likest to speaketh to this passage?

"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:7-10)

Hint: John wrote this to Christians. End of hint.

Or, would thou preferest to just ignore it ...
like a good little Baptist who ignores all kinds of Scriptures?
.

Is it a cleansing of sin for the re enabling of fellowship? or of salvation?


Hint what is the theme of 1st John Chapter 1.

 

[evangelist-7]

Is it a cleansing of sin for the re enabling of fellowship? or of salvation?
Hint what is the theme of 1st John Chapter 1.

Kudos for an excellent response, which da preacher of no truth is incapable of.

Yes, most Christians tend to agree with you.
Ditto for commentaries, etc.
Who wants to be rejected for teaching against historically-accepted doctrine,
which is taught in most of the churches? ... We iz specifically talking about OSAS.

Now, back to our passage in 1 John.

I take it to mean ... no forgiveness of sin, no eternal life.
Which is what many other verses teach ... in varying degrees of intensity.
E.G. my favorite is Romans 6:15-23, which is totally obscured to most.

My question has always been ... Are these warnings: lies, bluffs, tricks, exaggerations, or truths?
.

 

[DHK]

My question has always been ... Are these warnings: lies, bluffs, tricks, exaggerations, or truths?
.

If you don't have enough knowledge to answer this question then you shouldn't be posting.

 

[evangelist-7]

E-7: My question has always been ... Are these warnings: lies, bluffs, tricks, exaggerations, or truths?

If you don't have enough knowledge to answer this question then you shouldn't be posting.

Totally unbelievable! ... Aaaah, no, on 2nd thought, it's not.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

Totally unbelievable! ... Aaaah, no, on 2nd thought, it's not.
.

Would say that the gift of discernment was not one given to you in yoyur 'baptism" as you have a boatload of bad doctrines, and he does not lead one into error!