Another question about Rev. 17:8

[PASTOR MHG]

I asked this the other day in the "william rant" and did not see an answer...

Please forgive me for jumping in late on this. I will be honest and say that you must be better men than I am if you are able to even understand what william is writing. It reads like a new language.

My question is this...

Please explain the difference between the two readings in question from an English perspective.

My knowledge of Greek is limited, (only one year)
but it seems to me that the translation in English in the KJ is not unacceptable even though it is dervied from the "wrong" Greek. It seems that in both varying readings we end up with a verb that is a "state of being."

Thanks for the help.

Max

 

[TCassidy]

I posted in the first thread, before the later one that was closed, that the difference is nil, and meaningless regarding any doctrine of the Christian faith. It is one of those places where the nitpickers will pick away until a festering sore erupts.

Revelation 17:8 represents a typo in the TR. Everybody who can read Greek knows that. The KJVO/TRO people have such a weak faith that to admit the existence of a single typo would destroy their entire belief system! The anti-KJVO zealots, on the other hand, seem think a typo in the TR invalidates the entire KJV. Both extremes are mistaken. The typo, and its literal translation in the KJV, is meaningless to our faith, our doctrine, and our eternal destiny.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As was stated in the thread that was closed down, the KJV camp does not have a weak faith. They have a strong faith that God preserved His inerrant Word in the KJB.

To accuse people of having weak faith because the Spirit has convinced them that the KJV is the only Bible they need, is to be working the works of satan, for he is the accuser of the brethren.

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
As was stated in the thread that was closed down, the KJV camp does not have a weak faith. They have a strong faith that God preserved His inerrant Word in the KJB.

Faith is only as strong as the object it is placed in. If your faith is in a translation of the bible done by fallible men, then your faith is no stronger than the fallible men you have placed it in. That makes it a weak faith. On the other hand if your faith is in the God of the bible, and you trust His inspired words as given in Greek and Hebrew, then you have a strong faith.

To accuse people of having weak faith because the Spirit has convinced them that the KJV is the only Bible they need, is to be working the works of satan, for he is the accuser of the brethren.

Some "spirit" may have convinced you that the KJV is the only bible, but that "spirit" was not the Holy Spirit.

You remind me of a woman Pentecostal I used to know. She told me because I don't speak in tongues that I was not saved. She told me that was true because she was a "spirit called prophet of God" and the spirit told her to say it! I told here I had no doubt she was called by a spirit, but it certainly was not the Holy Spirit of God! You seem to be in the same boat as that woman Pentecostal "prophet."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I never said the faith was in the KJV. Read the post again. Their faith is in God, who they believe He preserved His perfect Word in their KJB.

One could argue the same, that some 'spirit' convinced others that the other versions were more accurate.

Are you accusing me of being unsaved? of listening to a false spirit? be careful. as I stated before, satan is the accuser of the brethren.'

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
I never said the faith was in the KJV. Read the post again. Their faith is in God, who they believe He preserved His perfect Word in their KJB.

I will type is r-e-a-l s-l-o-w so you can follow it. The KJV does not say that God only preserved the KJV. The KJV does not say God inspired the KJV. The KJV does not say God inspired the KJV translators. Therefore you cannot claim that God said something He didn't say. (Unless you think you are hearing God's voice, in which case you need more help than I can give you.)

One could argue the same, that some 'spirit' convinced others that the other versions were more accurate.

Exactly! If you can claim that the Holy Spirit convicted you (even though God's word never mentions which translation is best) that the KJV is the only word of God in English then you have no argument with the guy who says the Holy Spirit convicted him that the NIV is the only real bible in English. You have to accept his word for it and you may not, according to your standard, disagree with him and still be spiritual! Can you say "subjective?"

Are you accusing me of being unsaved?

No, that is what you do, not me. I have never questioned your salvation.

of listening to a false spirit?

If you are claiming that a spirit told you the KJV was the only word of God in English, then, yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

be careful.

I am always very careful. You should try it.

as I stated before, satan is the accuser of the brethren.'

Yes, he is. He is also the Father of lies and false doctrine. Every lying spirit is in his service. You should take John's advice, "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

 

[standingfirminChrist]

your accusing tongue in this thread and in the message thread where you blatantly attack me betrays who you serve.

I will address you no more until you learn more respect for God's people.

 

[DeclareHim]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
the KJV camp does not have a weak faith. They have a strong faith that God preserved His inerrant Word in the KJB.

They actually have a faith which is unscriptural.

To accuse people of having weak faith because the Spirit has convinced them that the KJV is the only Bible they need, is to be working the works of satan, for he is the accuser of the brethren.

So I guess those who are KJVO and tell others (that have been convinced they need only the NIV) they are using a "false bible" are actually of satan correct? I'm just trying to follow your line of reasoning.

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
your accusing tongue in this thread and in the message thread where you blatantly attack me betrays who you serve.

I did not lie about you nor accuse you. You did, however, lie about me and falsely accuse me.

I will address you no more until you learn more respect for God's people.

I have respect for God and His word, and I will continue to confront you as long as you continue to attack the word of God and the God of the word.

 

[robycop3]

StandingFirmInChrist:As was stated in the thread that was closed down, the KJV camp does not have a weak faith. They have a strong faith that God preserved His inerrant Word in the KJB.

But it's a BLIND faith.

Hebrews 11:1, KJV..Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The KJVO myth has no substance nor any evidence supporting it, so faith in the KJVO myth isn't BIBLICAL faith, but BLIND faith, based upon nothing.

To accuse people of having weak faith because the Spirit has convinced them that the KJV is the only Bible they need, is to be working the works of satan, for he is the accuser of the brethren.

The only thing having anything to do with Satan is the ORIGIN of the current KJVO myth. Remember, even there have been scattered KJVOs before 1930, it was a 7TH DAY ADVENTIST'S book that started the current myth. It was from this book that most of the salient points of KJVOism came, such as the "Psalm 12:7 thingie". Given that a cult official's book started it, it's not from GOD. If it was from GOD, it wouldn't be false, would it?

AND...Do ya REALLY believe the Holy Spirit would steer you to something not in Scripture?

As for the question at hand, would you agree that Erasmus made a typo, or do you have some other explanation?

 

[robycop3]

StandingFirmInChrist:I never said the faith was in the KJV. Read the post again. Their faith is in God, who they believe He preserved His perfect Word in their KJB.

And again, it's not a BIBLICAL faith. Not necessarily SINFUL, but not CORRECT, BIBLICAL faith, either. No SUBSTANCE, no EVIDENCE. BLIND FAITH is GUESSWORK.

One could argue the same, that some 'spirit' convinced others that the other versions were more accurate.

And we DO.

It's as likely that the HOLY SPIRIT led me to the NASV, NIV, ESV, or NKJV(as well as to the KJV) as it is that He led YOU to just the KJV.

(I shall not stick my nose into your 'discussion' with DC.)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Roby,

I have addressed the lie that I am KJVO.

As I stated, satan is the accuser of the brethren.

Proverbs 21:23 Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles.

 

[Bro Tony]

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, swims like a duck ---then I guess its an eagle.

Bro Tony

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This thread is already off topic.

First warning issued.

 

[DesiderioDomini]

Whats funny is Cassidy in his first post didnt say anything about those who want to use the KJV as their only bible. He in fact is one!

All he said was it is a fact that the reading found in the KJV in Rev. 17:8 is a typographical error! This fact debunks KJVO! So far, rather than address the issue, SFiC has simply whinned and cried and screamed foul!

I would lose my patience with such an unrepentant spirit as well.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

All future posts not directed at the question in the OP will be deleted.

 

[william s. correa]

The only TYPO is in the darkness not in the light, therefore One cannot get darkness out of the light but one can put light into the darkness! The Church of England is the Big TYPO and So is any body that claims [attack on the Word of God deleted] is the Word Of God! God only allows HIS Words to change us not darkness! God is Light and in Him is NO darkness! So to try and Squeeze blood from a turnip is what DD is Asking! And All those that follow are just Blid leaders of the blind! No matter what EVIDENCE one has it is Burned up in the fire like every thing else that the devil wants to hide and set on FIRE! FIRE from HELL I tell you! and There has been No proof to eliminate the fact that a Manuscript is missing ONE word! All that you have done is Strenghthen the faithful and encourage the Bretheren when you all sound like BRASS! If TCassidy would hear himself post[personal attack deleted] and Robycop3 and DD [attack deleted] Who is he any ways ? and what happened [attack against member deleted] that causes him to defend Christian Rock and Roll and versions such as the [attack against God's Word deleted] NOT the SAME as GOD's Word in the KJB!Not one Word has been changed for over 400 years and here comes [attack against a member deleted]. As far as I'm concerned [attack against a member deleted] that you keep Quoting in Rev.17:8 All that has been said is nothing compared to What Jesus is Saying to us in the KJB! That is Funny that TCassidy Quotes out of the KJV but defends [attack against God's Word deleted]. I wonder what is said in the NIV concerning The Scriptures we are commanded to search (John 5:39; Isa.8:20). Or how we are commended that we search and study them (Acts 17:11 and 8:28,29).Or They are reproved that were unskilful in them, or slow to believe them (Matt.22:29; Luke.24:25). "And again, [Tertul. de carne Christi.] to Apelles an heretick of the like stamp, he saith: I do not admit that which thou bringest in (or concludest) of thine own (head or store, de tuo) without Scripture. Now the Church of England would seem at the length to bear and to allow the Scriptures in their mother tongue: but indeed it is a gift, , an unprofitable gift they must approve themselves to their confessor, that is, to be such as are, if not stagnent in the dregs, yet soured with the baptism of lemmons of their own superstitions. Thats why the Code was Broken By King Jesus in the KJB! The "yet is" is going to be thrown into the Lake of FIRE!

[ May 18, 2006, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

[Deacon]

 

[Ransom]

William's ravings should be compiled into the KJV-only Catechism.

Q. What is the evidence for KJV-onlyism?

A. To ask for EVIDENCE is to squeeze blood from a turnip. No matter what EVIDENCE one has it is Burned up in the fire like every thing else that the devil wants to hide and set on FIRE! FIRE from HELL I tell you!

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
The Church of England is the Big TYPO and So is any body that claims the NIV is the Word Of God! . . . So to try and Squeeze blood from a turnip is what DD is Asking! And All those that follow are just Blid leaders of the blind! No matter what EVIDENCE one has it is Burned up in the fire like every thing else that the devil wants to hide and set on FIRE! FIRE from HELL I tell you!

Okay, C4K, you edited my posts that were truthful. Are you going to edit william's that are a pack of lies?

and There has been No proof to eliminate the fact that a Manuscript is missing ONE word! All that you have done is Strenghthen the faithful and encourage the Bretheren when you all sound like BRASS! If TCassidy would hear himself post he souds like a little child who has lost his marbles!

Well, C4K? Are you going to be consistant?

and Robycop3 and DD follow his every Whim! Who is he any ways ? and what happened to him as a Child (Maybe dropped on his head) that causes him to defend Christian Rock and Roll and versions such as the NIV,NASB,NKJV,Amplified,and other MV's that are NOT the SAME as GOD's Word in the KJB!

Well C4K? That string of lies is almost too numerous to count! Are you going to be consistant or are you going to allow the lies and name calling to stand?

Not one Word has been changed for over 400 years and here comes Dr. Big Belly and changes the Word of God to suit his Needs. As far as I'm concerned You are No diffrent than the Harlot church that you keep Quoting in Rev.17:8

Earth to C4K! Earth to C4K!

All that has been said is nothing compared to What Jesus is Saying to us in the KJB! That is Funny that TCassidy Quotes out of the KJV but defends the NIV.

C4K? Are you there? Have you resigned as a moderator? Hello? Hello?