Another Question For Calvinists

[swaimj]

russell55 said

I don't think Horton thinks of these as soteriological operations, and I'm pretty sure he would agree that faith is necessary for salvation.

I have not read Horton, so I don't know the context. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Still, the phrasing was "the work of the Spirit through the means of grace". That sounds like a soteriological operation to me.

 

[russell55]

russell55 said
I have not read Horton, so I don't know the context. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Still, the phrasing was "the work of the Spirit through the means of grace". That sounds like a soteriological operation to me.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by soteriological. Is the teaching of a Christian parent, who is led by the Holy Spirit, a soteriological operation? Is the teaching of a church with Spirit-gifted teachers a soteriological operation? I don't know about Horton specifically, but I do know some other Presbyterians, and they would say, at least as far as I understand them, that there is no salvific benefit from being part of the covenant community alone. For those of the covenant community in whom the Spirit works faith, those things would have salvific benefit.

 

[swaimj]

Thanks for the reply Russell55. I think I just need to read Horton if I want to understand what he is saying. Without doing this, any attempt by me to discuss this is akin to a blind man firing shots in the dark. I think I'll spare us both. :saint:

 

[russell55]

I think I just need to read Horton if I want to understand what he is saying.

This statement made me chuckle a little. I recently reviewed a book by Michael Horton--one called Introducing Covenant Theology. I mentioned in the review that even though I thought I understood covenant theology better than most, much of Horton's book, which was supposedly introductory level, was incomprehensible to me. I just didn't get it.

In response to that review, a conservative Presyterian pastor commented to me that he feels the same way about Horton and what he writes. He attributed it to Horton being in presbyterian academia too long. Anyway, it made me feel better if even people who share his view right down the line don't understand him.

 

[swaimj]

Are Cliff's Notes available? :smilewinkgrin: