another report on Sword Scripture Conference

[rbell]

We have to remember that we all have "bias" and see things according to our bias. Though as balanced as any human could be Pastor Bob is still going to see the meeting from his angle, as is this other poster on the other forum.

I trust Pastor Bob and admire his greatly, but he will, as any of us would, see the conference from his perspective and report accordingly.

From the tenor of the two posters I have read so far I trust Pastor Bob, for the reasoned and rationale way he reported.

I am looking forward to his view on the issues addressed by the poster over at BVDB.

Well said.

I just responded in question to Pastor_Bob if there were any others reporting negatively to the conference.

As expected, the type given in this thread is typical of those lying in wait to pounce on anything that "moves".

So...if you think the conference is great, you are "fair and balanced," but if you have problems with it, that makes you predatory?

See C4K's post on "bias" earlier...that addresses it well, and respectfully.

 

[Salamander]

Well said.


So...if you think the conference is great, you are "fair and balanced," but if you have problems with it, that makes you predatory?

I think the conference was great because I already have the views espoused by what PB reported.

If you're going to get into the practice of knowing what other people think then you should get a crystal ball.:wavey:

See C4K's post on "bias" earlier...that addresses it well, and respectfully.

I think he posted according to his bias.

I said "typical". I am typical. You are typical.

This mole, not a "troll", has left you a little hill to help construct your mountain.:sleeping_2:

 

[Plain Old Bill]

If I know anything about SOTL it is they will be seiing cd's of as much of the conference as they think they can sell. Then we can judge for ourselves.:thumbs:

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

Towards the beginning of the conference there was talk about being kind, not insulting and showing the truth in love, but as the conference continued the atmosphere degenerated. The NIV was called "Non-Inspired-Version" and "the HIV," etc.

This criticism is "mild" compared to the SOTL conferences I attended as a child. Sorry, no link. We didn't have links back then.

 

[rbell]

If you're going to get into the practice of knowing what other people think then you should get a crystal ball.:wavey:

This mole, not a "troll", has left you a little hill to help construct your mountain.:sleeping_2:

I wasn't aware a "crystal ball" was needed to point out logical inconsistencies.

It's also news to me that by offering an opinion (one devoid of anger, and one that might reflect a position that differs with a poster (Pastor Bob) that I respect)....I'm now in the business of "mountain-building." It is possible to have an opinion, and it just be that.. an opinion. No anger, vindictiveness, or lingering hard feelings.

Sometimes an opinion is just an opinion.

 

[menageriekeeper]

For those looking for a link:

[apologies, but we have a policy against links to other boards]

I hope I'm not in trouble for linking to another message board, but this seems to be the discussion from the OP.

Yeah, I kinda thought such was the case. If'n someone is really curious they are welcome to pm/e-mail me for the link. Just wait till I get an addy added to my profile.

 

[Armchair Scholar]

Sigh ...

Well, thanks for the report anyways.

I think the anti-education pseudo-'fundamental' is taking root
too many places

They should call on their darling Gail Riplinger, the "linguistics expert" and "former English teacher," to help them re-learn proper English. :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Armchair Scholar]

What may seem vicious to some may not be vicious to others.

Remember, the opposite can also be the case. There's an old phrase: "It's all in how they hear it..." If someone honestly perceived it "vicious" that was their experience. Other attendee's reports are not necessarily less valid than pastor Bob's report just because they did not post their report on this BB.

 

[Logos1560]

I will say that I spoke directly to Dr. Belcher Friday morning about that message.

Was the title of Dr. Belcher's message "Shut up, you don't speak Greek!" or words to that effect as the other person indicated?

Is Norris Belcher not the pastor of the same church where Shelton Smith once pastored in Maryland?

Your own report of Belcher's message provides information that he is misinformed about some aspects of the Bible translation issue. One example is his claim concerning Isaiah 14:12.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I just arrived home. I apologize, but I am not staying up to respond this evening. I will give you my perspective and my direct quotes after church tomorrow afternoon. I can answer a few quick questions now though.

Yes, the message was entitled, "Shut Up! You Don't Speak Greek."
Yes, he pastors the church formerly pastored by Dr. Smith. He has been there for 12 years now.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Great to see you made it home Pastor Bob.

I gave your mother my address and phone number in case you ever are in the area in your travels and need to stop a while and rest.

Looking forward to your comments tomorrow.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Yes, the message was entitled, "Shut Up! You Don't Speak Greek."

I am looking forward to more, but wonder what his text was for that title.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I also am interested in that text, Roger.:thumbs:

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Dr. Norris Belcher – “Shut Up! You Don’t Speak Greek!”

1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (KJV)

• “You can trust the King James Bible; it is the Word of God.”
• A man that takes Greek classes has an internal thought that he can now correct the Bible.
• “Why are we not teaching our church members Greek?”
• There are probably no more than two men alive today who would be qualified to sit on the KJV translation committee. The men on the translation committee were fluent in the classic languages.
• With one version, God is the authority; with many versions, man becomes the arbitrator of God's Word.
• I Cor. 1:10 – Different speech causes divisions – the Tower of Babel.

Dr. Belcher was not speaking out against textual critics in this message. He was speaking directly to IFB preachers who have the habit of “correcting” the Bible. They make statements like, “A better word here would be….” His point was that, men who make such statements often have no Greek knowledge other than what they’ve read in a Strong’s Concordance.

He was pointing out the inconsistency in saying that we believe we have the inspired, preserved Word of God in our hands and then go about correcting it or improving upon it by going to the Greek. He was asserting that you can’t have it both ways. Either the KJV is the Word of God or it isn’t.

He was in no way mocking or making fun of those who have had Greek. In fact, his college has a Greek class. As I spoke to him Friday morning, he explained that he stresses to his students that a rudimentary knowledge of the Greek language is simply a tool to be used in understanding tenses and such. It is not to be used to think that a year or two of Greek makes you smarter than God. If we believe that God preserved His Word in the KJV, we need to trust what He says as He has said it.

 

[franklinmonroe]

... Yes, the message was entitled, "Shut Up! You Don't Speak Greek."...

I immediately have lost a lot of respect for a preacher that would use such a title for sermon. We have never tolerated the mean-spirited term "shut up" to be used in our household.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Norris Belcher was the most extreme of the bunch last night, making a mockery of Greek and Hebrew.

Not true. He illustrated the inconsistency in using the Greek and Hebrew to correct what one has declared to be the perfect Word of God.

He had everyone raise their hand that had taken Greek. He then asked if any of them could say, "I'm going to McDonald's to buy a hamburger." He then made fun of them for not being able to say it in Greek

Not true. There was no mocking going on at all. His point (which was well taken by even the most scholarly attendees) was that learning an alphabet and a few verbs does not give one the ability to speak Greek.

(of course he didn't tell you that the words "McDonalds" and "hamburger" never existed in Koine Greek).

He didn't need to; those who took Greek already knew that. He point was still valid.

He tried to mock preachers that "go to the Greek,"

Again, there was no mocking. Rebuke perhaps, but no mocking.

because "the KJV has a built-in dictionary." The example he gave of a built-in dictionary made no sense.

The example made perfect sense. He used II Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." What does the word "study" mean? Does it mean to sit down and study like we do at school? He was pointing out that you don't have to go to the Greek to learn the meaning of this word. To "study" here means "self-work." "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman..." The English clearly reveals that we are to wok to show ourselves approved. We can conclude that "study" here means to "labor" or "work." Even pone who has no Greek knowledge and no access to a Strong's can understand what this word means. That is How God wrote the Bible.

He said that Strong's dictionary is wrong in about 80% of what it says.

It is common knowledge that 76.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

He didn't say outright that it was wrong to teach Greek and Hebrew in Bible colleges, but he tried to leave people with the impression that it was a waste of time and counter-productive.

Not true, if that was the impression one got from this message, that one wasn't listening well.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

There seems to be some discrepancy here. Pastor Bob said that there was no mention of Ruckman, yet the OP of the other board logos got his OP from states that Ruckman was mentioned.

I will have to believe Pastor Bob on this one.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Please remember that I said that Ruckman was not mentioned in the sessions I attended. I attended Thursday afternoon and evening and then the first two sessions on Friday morning. I have ordered the rest of the sessions on DVD and will watch them in time. If I hear a mention of Ruckman, I will let you know.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

We have to remember that we all have "bias" and see things according to our bias. Though as balanced as any human could be Pastor Bob is still going to see the meeting from his angle, as is this other poster on the other forum.

I entirely agree. I did, however, do my very best to be objective. I assure you that my ear was tuned to any mention of Ruckman or Ruckman-like rhetoric. I want to distance myself from the extreme element of this issue.

I did hear a few derisive terms used to refer to the MVs, but it was based upon a strong belief that those versions are indeed based on corrupt texts and are thereby corrupt themselves.

The reference to the NIV and the "HIV" was an attempt to "humorously" point out that this version is "infected" with error and corruption. It was not alluding to AIDS or linking it to homosexuality in any form or fashion.

I wouldn't personally use the term, but do understand the feeble attempt at making a point.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Thank you Pastor Bob for your report. I appreciate your attempts to present a balanced and honest report.

I think you and the poster said the same basic things from two different perspectives. The other poster went in to find fault with the the conference and its intentions. You approached the conference generally in favour of what was being promoted.

I think the two posts reflect the attitudes carried in the the conference.

I would much rather read a report like your which does not seek to inflame, but honestly report from your perspective.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I totally agree. If we enter a service or services with the intent of finding fault with the message, we are not going to receive that which we truly need from the Lord.

Again, Pastor Bob... Thank you. May God bless you for the correct attitude of honesty, humbleness and hunger for the Word of God.