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Another Riplinger video...

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robycop3

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I started a new thread called "answers to posts from another topic" to tryta keep this thread alive & on topic till the dialogues about the Riplinger video have run their courses.

Rufus, I answered one of your posts in that thread. I invite Mongol Servant & others who have brought up points here to discuss them in that thread.

I believe Franklin has s'more commentary about the Riplinger video to post yet, & I'm hoping we don't get so off-topic here that it forces the mods to close this thread before he has the chance to completely dissect it. Anyone else's commentary about this video will be allowed by the mods, of course, and I thank them for allowing this thread to run far past the usual 5-page limit. But now, as the thread starter, I must respectfully ask all to stick to the topic. I've incorrectly answered a few of those posts myself, so I'm guilty as anyone for going off-topic, & I apologize.

With that said, on with the show!
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Rufus_1611 said:
Yes.

Which Bible will you die for?

I assume by your question that you are willing to die for the KJV. Bible worship is not a part of my life nor was it a part of Jesus' life. By your discussion I assume you do not understand that there was more than one translation of the OT during Jesus' time.

I am only willing to die for the one I worhsip. That one is Jesus Christ. I do not worship the Bible. Therefore I cannot die for a Bible. Only God is to be worshiped. The majority of Christians during the time of the NT did not own a Bible. In fact only 1-2% could even read.
 

Rufus_1611

New Member
gb93433 said:
I assume by your question that you are willing to die for the KJV. Bible worship is not a part of my life nor was it a part of Jesus' life. By your discussion I assume you do not understand that there was more than one translation of the OT during Jesus' time.

I am only willing to die for the one I worhsip. That one is Jesus Christ. I do not worship the Bible. Therefore I cannot die for a Bible. Only God is to be worshiped. The majority of Christians during the time of the NT did not own a Bible. In fact only 1-2% could even read.

Out of respect for Robycop3's request, I will not be responding to your post.
 

Mike Berzins

New Member
Going way back...

franklinmonroe said:
Personally, that the NKJV prefers to render the words consistantly as "new covenant" rather than as "new testament" in all 6 occurrances doesn't bother me. This seems very straightforward, and there isn't anything 'tricky' going on here. Perhaps some one could kindly explain to me any superiority that the word "testament" has over "covenant" in fundamental orthodox Baptist theology. "Testament" is a true archaic English term for a covenant between humans and God. From Middle English, a will, from Latin testamentum, from testari, to make a will, from testis, witness. Most any decent thesaurus will show that "covenant" is a proper synonym for "testament".

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Covenant and testament might be synonyms, but they are not not the same word. The death of the testator is in view by the very use of the specific word "testament"; it is not necessarily so with the word "covenant". The word of God, even in this little detail of the word choice, glorifies God and gives one even more cause to think on his death.

To the Lord, I can truly say that I am "In Awe of Thy Word." And he gave it to me bound in a single book I can hold in my hand and read!

Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Does anyone else on this board have a "very pure" bible?
 

Mongol Servant

New Member
Another Riplinger video

Originally posted by EdSutton: "I realize you are new to the BB. I'm going to offer you a bit of friendly advice, as one who has no position on the BB, except as a member. You can take it or leave it. I note you have a total of three posts. You have already in three posts clearly violated several of the rules on the BB, especially in this forum. Those are to be found at the very top of this forum. And they are fairly simple to read and fairly clear in what they say. I don't make any rules, I just follow them, here. If you would like to see your post number climb to a much higher number, you should probably consider cleaning up your act in a hurry. Take it for what it's worth. More than one poster has not reached double figures in posts before being banned. You could easily join that crowd, at present rate. And I will not have anything at all to do, with your joining them. Others in authority will be the ones, who help one find the door, who will not abide by the rules of this private forum. You don't like 'em? Start your own forum."

Thanks for the concern, Ed, but I don't see any "rules" violations. I didn't come to the BB to "increase my posts." My thoughts on that are similar to what Captain Rhett Butler told Scarlett O'Hara in "Gone With The Wind," - i.e. Frankly, my dear, I don't.....

Rufus & Mike - you guys hang in there! Yes, Mike I have a pure Bible, it's called The Holy Bible! :thumbs:
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Mike Berzins said:
...
Does anyone else on this board have a "very pure" bible?

Mine says:

HOLY BIBLE
THE OLD & NEW TESTAMENT

HAND SIZE
GIANT PRINT REFERENCE
EDITION

Holman Christian Standard Bible

Holman
Bible Publishers

IMHO 'holy' comes from the reader via the Holy Spirit
(or is that 'holy Spirit, int he KJV1611 Edition)?

 

EdSutton

New Member
Mongol Servant said:
Originally posted by EdSutton: "I realize you are new to the BB. I'm going to offer you a bit of friendly advice, as one who has no position on the BB, except as a member. You can take it or leave it. I note you have a total of three posts. You have already in three posts clearly violated several of the rules on the BB, especially in this forum. Those are to be found at the very top of this forum. And they are fairly simple to read and fairly clear in what they say. I don't make any rules, I just follow them, here. If you would like to see your post number climb to a much higher number, you should probably consider cleaning up your act in a hurry. Take it for what it's worth. More than one poster has not reached double figures in posts before being banned. You could easily join that crowd, at present rate. And I will not have anything at all to do, with your joining them. Others in authority will be the ones, who help one find the door, who will not abide by the rules of this private forum. You don't like 'em? Start your own forum."

Thanks for the concern, Ed, but I don't see any "rules" violations. I didn't come to the BB to "increase my posts." My thoughts on that are similar to what Captain Rhett Butler told Scarlett O'Hara in "Gone With The Wind," - i.e. Frankly, my dear, I don't.....

Rufus & Mike - you guys hang in there! Yes, Mike I have a pure Bible, it's called The Holy Bible! :thumbs:
I actually agree with you on the number of posts, even having 3K plus, and I don't particularly care how many any other has. I do not have that many to go for any number, nor am I seeking one. I can speak for no other, as to 'motive'. But one does establish a certain amount of credibility, or lack of the same, with posts, here. And a certain amount of 'credentials', with other members, as well.

And FTR, I have a pure Bible, as well. (Actually, several.) Every one of them is titled "Holy Bible", even thought I might tend to think that is a misnomer, IMO, with agenda driven versions or editions, such as the NWT, for example. :rolleyes:

However, as another poster states, in this forum, there are rules here, and one rule is, in the vernacular "Thou shall not 'bad-mouth' another poster." A second is one "Thou shall not call any version a "perversion", regardless of 'flavor.''. A third is "Thou shall not question the salvation of another based on version perference.", and a fourth is "Thou shall show grace to other posters."

(Personally, I think they are good 'rules' to abide by in this or any other forum, but that is only my opinion, and I do not try and enforce it, or even suggest it on anyone in any other forums, for each has its own rules to follow.)

I can cite chapter and verse for all the above where the spirit, if not the actual letter, were inpugned, as well as where the rules are posted, the opinion of Rufus_1611, notwithstanding.

I have now posted three replies, directed directly at your posts. The first was entirely positive; the second and third, this being the third, were not entirely positive, due to content of what I was addressing. I shall not address this subject again, publicly, on the forum. I have simply offered it as "a word to the wise".

And I offered that anyone is 'free' to start their own forum. That offer still stands.

Should you wish to disagree with what I posted regarding this, I request you do it via the 'Private Message' route.

As I said before. "Back to the movie!"

In His grace,

Ed
 
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EdSutton

New Member
Logos1560 said:
Her tract used to claim that the NKJV "copies" the Jehovah Witness Version.

In her tract attacking and misrepresenting the NKJV, Gail Riplinger claimed that the "NKJV copies Jehovah Witness Version" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 by having the rendering "Joshua" instead of having the rendering "Jesus" as the KJV does. Part of this tract was also published in the Church Bus News (April-June, 1996, p. 26). Riplinger had earlier claimed that the “new versions use dynamic equivalencies frequently, such as translating ‘Jesus’ as “Joshua’ in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8” (New Age Bible Versions, p. 127). Riplinger and Beebe asserted that “the NKJV even turns ‘Jesus’ into “Joshua’ in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8” (Church Bus News, July-Sept., 2002, p. 17). Were the KJV translators following a Jehovah Witnesses' reading when they stated in the margin of the 1611 concerning their reading "Jesus" at Hebrews 4:8 the following: "That is Joshua"? A mark by "Jesus" at Hebrews 4:8 in the Geneva Bible referred to this marginal note: "He speaketh of Joshua the son of Nun." Waite's Defined KJB gave the following note for "Jesus" at Hebrews 4:8: "i.e. Joshua (Heb equivalent of Jesus)" (p. 1589).

Furthermore, Riplinger seemed to be unaware of the fact that several of the early good Bibles have this same rendering as the NKJV. At Hebrews 4:8, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, Coverdale's Duoglott, Great, Taverner's, and Whittingham's have "Joshua." At Acts 7:45, Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's, and Great Bibles have "Joshua." Were the majority of the earlier 1500's English Bibles which have "Joshua" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 copying the 1950's Jehovah Witnesses' Version? Did the old Peshitta Syriac follow a Jehovah Witnesses' reading in these verses? The Peshitta even adds "the son of Nun" to make sure that it is clear that Joshua is referred to in Hebrews 4:8. Did John Wesley in 1754 copy a Jehovah Witnesses' reading in these verses? All the editions of Luther's German Bible published during Luther's lifetime have "Josua" (Joshua) at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. Would Ruckman claim that Tyndale and Luther purposely mistranslated Acts 7:45?

The 1833 Webster's Bible has the center column note "or, Joshua" at Acts 7:45 and "That is, Joshua" at Hebrews 4:8. The 1917 Scofield Reference Bible has the center column note "Joshua" at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. The 1657 Dutch Annotations has at Jesus at Acts 7:45 the following: “That is Joshua, the son of Nun, whereby we see that the names Joshua and Jesus are all one name.”

The fact should be obvious that a 1950's Jehovah Witnesses' Version did not even exist when the old Syriac, Luther's German Bible, and several of the early English Bibles had the reading "Joshua" in these verses. It is also interesting to note that Wally Beebe's 1975 Bus Worker's Edition of the KJV has "Joshua" in the text at Acts 7:45 and that it has a note listing "Joshua" as an alternative translation at the end of Hebrews 4:8. Would Riplinger say that Beebe's Bus Worker's Bible copied from the Jehovah Witnesses? The Liberty Annotated Study Bible [KJV], the Criswell Study Bible [KJV], and the Rice Reference Bible [KJV] also have "Joshua" in the text at Acts 7:45.

The evidence is clear and overwhelming that it was wrong and false to claim that the NKJV copies the Jehovah Witnesses' Version at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. Check these verses in my second appendix. In his commentary on the Gospel of Luke, G. Campbell Morgan observed that "Jesus is merely the Anglicising of the Greek name; and the Greek name rendered Jesus is the Greek form of a very well known and common Hebrew name, Joshua; and Joshua is really an abbreviation of the name Jehoshua" (p. 40). In his commentary on Acts, J. Vernon McGee noted about 7:45: "Jesus in this passage refers to Joshua. Joshua is the Hebrew name, and Jesus is the Greek" (p. 83). In his 1857 commentary on Acts, J. A. Alexander stated: "Jesus, the Septuagint form of Joshua, occurs also in Heb. 4:8, and in both cases creates some confusion in the minds of English readers" (p. 294). Bullinger maintained that “Jesus=Joshua, the son of Nun” at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 (Lexicon, pp. 422-423). In his commentary on Acts, H. A. Ironside wrote: "The word 'Jesus' here of course is really Joshua. It is the same name, but we somehow think of 'Jesus' as applying only to our blessed Saviour" (p. 173). Concerning this verse in the 1839 Baptist edition of the Comprehensive Commentary edited by William Jenks and Joseph Warne, this is stated: “The tabernacle was brought in by those who came with Jesus, that is, Joshua, as, for distinction-sake, and to prevent mistakes, it ought to be read, both here and Hebrews 4:8” (p. 38). The ABS’s Committee on Versions commented: “Thus in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, we find the name Jesus, which the common reader will naturally refer only to the Saviour; while in reality it is simply the Greek form for Joshua, and should properly have been so written” (Statements, p. 7). It could also be noted that the New Testament used the name "Jesus" to refer to a man also called "Justus" (Col. 4:11).

Riplinger's false claim, which seems to attempt to condemn the NKJV by associating it with a cult, is based on the ad hominem (poisoning the well) fallacy. Did Riplinger intend or desire to injure the good name and reputation of the NKJV translators by making these false, and perhaps even slanderous, or libelous statements concerning the NKJV? Does not Riplinger's claim "bear false witness" against the NKJV and its translators (Exod. 20:16, Prov. 6:19, 14:5, Rom. 13:9)? Riplinger wrote: "Anything based on a false premise will eventually have to resort to lies to defend itself" (Blind Guides, p. 58). Did Riplinger possibly assume or start with a false premise that the NKJV copied the Jehovah Witnesses' Version? Defending Riplinger, Waite wrote: "If she has made an error of fact or quotation, she is willing to admit it and correct it" (Foes, p. 55). Have these errors been corrected or are these false claims still being published in her tract? In her new book, Riplinger seemed to tone down her claim to "how the NKJV matches Jehovah Witness Version" (Language of the KJB, p. 148). Has the false claim actually been corrected or has a synonym been substituted for "copy?" Is her new claim still misleading? By using her faulty reasoning, a comparison could be made entitled "how the KJV matches the Jehovah Witness Version" or "how the KJV matches the Latin Vulgate."

Great informative post. Somehow this Scripture seems appropriate, as to the video.
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart[a] brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt. 12: 33-37 - NKJV)

Ed
 
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NaasPreacher (C4K)

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My interent is out so I have not been around for a couple of days - I am closing this thread immediately. It is off topic and contains flagrent rules violations.
 
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