Another School shooting

Who said I'm not thankful there are people protecting us? Please go back and show me that in the thread.

There is no violence in our home. I don't thank the police for that, I thank God for giving me enough love for my family that I will not harm them. I am very happy that there are dogs here to bark if there's a stranger, and glad that 911 is a short phone call.

On the other hand, and I never mentioned doing this but it's a good idea, why should I not expect more safety measures in public schools? At home my children are within my view practically 24/7. I am responsible for their safety, and I take that job seriously.

When a child is in a school, that responsibility changes hands to the government. I expect them to take it seriously. I think that for the most part, they do.

Is it time to look into more stringent measures? When you have a major rise in school violence and murders, yes. Is it worth the effort when the chances of it happening is not that high?

Depends on who you ask.

I'd say yes. Children are a priority. The funding is there. I think the safety of children is a program that could replace one of less value. Why? Because children-are-important. They depend on us for safety. That's our job. We don't want to fail, and when a shooter walks into a school and kills our kids we may not be responsible, but I don't want it on my shoulders to think that I could have done more to prevent it and I didn't. I don't think anyone does.

I guess I'm just not getting why your reaction is what it is. What is it you think I am missing/not getting in all this, and why do you think I don't appreciate those who help keep us safe? On the few occasions that I've called for help from the police, they were at my home within minutes in all of them save one. The one time I called for an ambulance they were there within moments helping my daughter. When my daughter was doing bad and wanted to go to VBS, an EMS worker took it upon himself to stay with her, unknown to her, so she could finally do something on her own that she wanted without feeling hovered over, and I got to know she was safe. He accepted nothing in return.
In the school the girls are in now, everyone has been great about understanding my daughter's health issues, working with them, and keeping her safe.
The school has planned for emergencies from weather to bomb threats to strangers coming in with bad intents. I'm glad for that.
The emergency room at the hospital here keeps files of my daughter's diagnostic images in order to be able to immediately understand what's with her because it's not common.
My daughter's doctors have gone the extra mile to make phone calls out of state and talk to other physicians to be sure they completely understand her. When we go to the hospital, we see security guards posted, especially near the maternity wards, and when my children were born they were given bracelets that set off alarms if they were taken an inch near any exit.

I'm certainly not one to be ungrateful and thankless for the help of people who help keep my loved ones safe, so I'd really appreciate an explanation of what made you believe I am so I can go back and see where I made a mistake in what I said. That is certainly not the impression I wish to give!

 

Galation has one logical falacy... a dynamic that needs added.

If someone gets hurt at home by accident, it only effects the immediate family.

If someone is shot at school it effects a whole school, community, and State. Why, my boys are afraid to go to school now... it has effected them.

It not only hurts the person shot, but also hurts all the students emotionally.

So when you factor in all the emotional hurts that occur from School shootings then it is safer at home...

Let's be realistic... He wasn't safer at School than home that day.

We do need a revival, at home, school, and church.

Pray for the ones involved.

 

I don't think you've thought this one out very carefully. Let's take a look...

And the neighborhood, and the extended family, and the friends of the family, and... in fact, no family is an island. The effects ripple out to the society in general, just as it does anywhere else.

Just like in the home! Isn't that amazing?

Children are very sensitive to hysteria in adults. They are safer in school than they are almost anywhere else, and somehow, they have been brainwashed to fear it.

As it does anywhere else.

Nope. You're just pretending that there aren't any consequences at home. But there always are.

You seem to be asking us not to be realistic.

And there are probably guys who survived firefights in Iraq, who would have been run down by a truck in the states. But guess which group has the most deaths. Let's be realistic.

Meantime, let's not put the kids in more danger, just because we have unreasonable fears. Pray for a revival and for more people with more sense.

 

This reminded me of a story I wrote for my blog this week.

I want to tell you a story...
One day there was this little lamb named Herbie.
Herbie was a cute little lamb, and he loved to jump and play in the meadow.
One day he heard from his mother that his family had to go to this far away country.

So the next day, he, his mother and father, his two sisters and two brothers started their long journey.
It was a long way, and he asked often, "Are we there yet?" His father just said, "no."
A few days passed, and Herbie and his family were very tired. They wondered how much further they had to go. They were discussing this when they met another sheep family of seven.
This was exciting for Herbie, for he now had other sheep to play with besides his brothers and sisters.

The two families travelled together for the next few days. Finally, they got to their destination. Herbie was confused. There in the middle of the dessert was a big box-shaped thing that a man named Noah and his family were building. Other animals started showing up and Noah and his sons were loading them into this big wooden box. Herbie had never seen anything like this in his life. There were zebras, giraffes, pigs, goats, camels, donkeys, and a lot of other animals he had never seen before.
It finally was his family's turn to get in the box, so Herbie just walked up the plank into his little cage. He asked his mom what was going on. She said that since she thought he was old enough to understand, she would tell him.


She started telling him of how God created the world, but over the centuries these humans had became so sinful, that God had no choice but to destroy it. But before he would destroy it, he had chosen this nice man and his family to be saved. She went on to tell him that in a few days, it would begin to "rain". Herbie asked what this meant, and she told him that water drops would fall from the sky, and that there would be so many of them that the Earth would be flooded. Herbie laughed and laughed... who ever heard of water falling from the sky!!!... He just thought it was so funny to hear this. He had his doubts, but his mom had never lied to him before, so he decided to believe her.


A few days later, it started to get dark outside, then he heard a funny noise on the roof, and all the animals started talking about the "rain" that was falling. It fell and fell, and then the box began to move, and it felt like it was floating. This lasted for a long time before it quit raining, and the box landed on a mountain.
Herbie was sooo thankful to be alive, he had heard stories of how a lot of creatures had lost their lives, and drowned. But his family was blessed to be alive... they survived the greatest catastrophe known to sheep!
The sun came out, and one day, Noah started unloading the animals. He let them out of their cages and they walked off the ark..... He was so happy.....until
.
.
.
.
.
.
.



Noah sacrificed him.
Poor little lamb!!!

Genesis 7:1-5
(1) Finally, the day came when the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the boat with all your family, for among all the people of the earth, I consider you alone to be righteous.
(2) Take along seven pairs of each animal that I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others.
(3) Then select seven pairs of every kind of bird. There must be a male and a female in each pair to ensure that every kind of living creature will survive the flood.
(4) One week from today I will begin forty days and forty nights of rain. And I will wipe from the earth all the living things I have created."
(5) So Noah did exactly as the LORD had commanded him.
Genesis 8:20
(20) Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and sacrificed on it the animals and birds that had been approved for that purpose.


I guess he was safer in the flood than on dry land.

 

Galation?

Where are your comprehensive skills in understanding what people are trying to convey to you??


In addition please show where ANYONE is crying about how bad it is! My nature is always typically one of optimism. However, that does not mean I am blind to the problems of society. Nor does it matter what picture you wish to paint of me! Though my wife, family, and friends might find humor in some! You don't seem to be a very insightful person.

When I was a teenager, one of our neighbors teenage daughters died of a brain aneurysm. As her sisters, one of four, were unable to wake her having thought she overslept. A friend and I watched from his drive as they put her body into an ambulance. While her family stood in their yard in complete dismay. This the very day before school was to start. My friend, out of the blue and in quoting a popular song at the time uttered “another one bites the dust”. It was shocking, given his nature, and something I have never forgotten. In defense of my friend however, he was simply young but completely detached from what was taking place! Such does remind me of the attitude you are showing in this thread, though.

My family has had a lifelong connection with a Hospital system, Nursing home, and numerous doctors. So heartache is not something I, or anyone on this board, are not familiar with. Just some of us are a little more conscious of others.

Again, NOBODY is blaming anyone. This was simply an opportunity to send condolences and to show concern. In addition, the only one being "defensive" and rightfully so, is yourself.

You think I am "infuriated" because my views are not "true"? Brother if I were infuriated, which is absolutely rare, there would be not mistake about it! Nor would I, as others have tried conveying, simply have used language such as "callous". If you think that is infuriated or not rational, I truly feel for you! But do apologize.

Marcia, I appreciate your coming in defense of Galation and trying to explain his position. If Galation is giving heartfelt sympathy AND trying to reassure people are working hard to protect against such things; I would be the first to thank him and encourage that vegelance to continue! However, if you read through his posts you get no such impression!

What would you think if you told a friend, that a mutual friend of yours had died in a plane crash. Upon doing such, your friend responds by going into a statistical girate over airline safety? You would think your friend was in denial, or nuts and/or completely heartless.


Again. If Galation is trying to show sympathy and reassure people, I am unsure what he does, then let him do so! I would applaud him for such! I simply get a defense of his statistical viewpoint and follow-up posts.

In Christ, Ralph

:godisgood:

 

It was posted in the News/Current events section Scarlett O! No debate of any sort was offered by El_Guero. Nor do I think such was his intention, news/current events. People take issue with what seemed to be a poor attitude.

In Christ,
Ralph

 

Again no debate was offered or titled as such. Current events/news has to always be debated?

Ok, so Galatian wanted a debate and he apparently got one. Can you tell us what Galation originally offered up for debate, though??

The highlighted was others, yours, and my response. I believe it was El_Guero's original purpose. "Another School shooting: We need to pray for the families and we need to pray for our country. We need revival badly."

Is there another News/Current events which offers no debate? I think the point is missed! But again, I did ask Galation the point of his questionable post. As most took such to be callous or un-caring. His follow-ups seemingly have enforced that notion.

Again however, if he is intending sympathy and offering re-assurance to people, let him say so. As I would thank him and encourage the continued good vigilance. Otherwise state what he wants to debate, "We need revival badly."???



Scarlett O. there is humor in your analogy of roosters fighting though. You're right it ain't always pretty, ha.:laugh:

Let's just pray for those involved and the families.

In Christ,
Ralph

Take care.:wavey:

 

I don't see much of a debate. Just pointing out that while any death at all is a tragedy, we need to keep our focus on the things that actually present a significant threat to our children. At least at the end, I don't see anyone arguing against my point, and no one seems to honestly think I was being callous.


Pray, and have compassion, but keep an eye open for ways to prevent such things from happening as well. It was that approach that made schools one of the safest places for our children, and it can work anywhere else we apply it.

That is, when you think about it, the compassionate thing to do.

 

Well Galation, at least at this point your posts are becoming sensible. However anyone who reads through your originals would likely draw the same conclusions as most did within this thread.



Just to clarify and express where we were coming from.

Your right it was not. In fact it was one of my recent points!

UHH?? Actually this was the major point against you! Can you please show where you pointed out the death of this gentlemen and event was a tragedy? As I assuredly will apologize. I recall you saying "If I was expressing condolences, I would have done it to his family". Then started defending your statistics?

I mostly agree but would say we need to be diligent in every aspect of our children's life! About being callous however, I know at least two who felt you were of such. In fact most within this thread took issue with your posts in this manner! Only Marcia truly tried defending and explaining your position.

Amen! Isn't this what El_Guero was calling for in the first place? None of us were blaming anyone or showing paranoia over the schools. Simply the tragedy of those involved.

I appreciate your last post! If such had been your original there would have never been an issue. :godisgood:


Anyhow take care,
Ralph

 

I'm a teacher. When a student doesn't get it the first time, I repeat it, perhaps using illustrations or common things they know. Eventually, it becomes sensible.

Not unless they had an agenda, I think. The message hasn't changed, but your response to it has.

Barbarian observes:
Just pointing out that while any death at all is a tragedy , we need to keep our focus on the things that actually present a significant threat to our children.

That was part of the problem. Someone was arguing with something they made up and attributed to me.

I said that any death was a tragedy, not only his, but anyone's. I went further, saying that the most compassionate thing of all is to address the most likely causes, because this will save the most people. This seems to have riled a few people. But I can't understand why.

Right. As you were reminded by others, this area is for discussions, and when this was put on the table, the dicussion started.

You might want to go back and check, but you should not attribute anything to me that I didn't say. I don't remember using the word. Do you doubt the facts I cited, or do you not think we should deal with the greatest hazards? As you saw, some people have their children terrified of schools, when in fact, they are most safe there.

Barbarian observes:
I was just addressing the rather foolish notion that schools are dangerous, when they are among the safest places to be in our society.

Barbarian observes:
"we need to keep our focus on the things that actually present a significant threat to our children. At least at the end, I don't see anyone arguing against my point, and no one seems to honestly think I was being callous".

I find it incomprehensible that anyone would think it is "callous" to reduce the risks to children. Or perhaps they were upset to find out that schools are safer than they thought.

Barbarian observes:
Pray, and have compassion, but keep an eye open for ways to prevent such things from happening as well. It was that approach that made schools one of the safest places for our children, and it can work anywhere else we apply it.

I hope so. I wish that we could apply it to places other than public schools.

You gave that impression. Keep in mind that just because people have other observations about things, it does not make them "callous" or "wrong."

There is, as El Guero suggested, a larger societal issue. Where do we put our concerns and our efforts to prevent tragedies? As individuals, it's to put God first. For society, it's to build organizations and systems to minimize the risk.

It appears that you understand both needs. And that makes this thread worthwhile.

 

But that is no the case here. No one posted that a friend had died. And if that is what had happened, that should be on the prayer forum.

I think pointing out the statistics can be reassuring. I think of this when I fly. I know that stats show flying is safer than driving and it does reassure me somewhat.

As Scarlett pointed out, this is a debate forum. I cannot believe that Galatian is unsympathetic or has no feelings. He was simply reacting the way God wired him -- with statistics. All God's children are different! And that's great! :thumbs:

 

I honestly don't see a lack of compassion - are you talking about me?

I posted that I read and appreciated your prayer. I shouldn't have to defend myself on this - you really know nothing about my reaction when I saw this on TV. But the Lord knows, and that's all that really counts.

I was trying to be a peacemaker here as I felt there was a lot of miscommunication. Guess I should have kept silent.

 

No, I should not have kept silent. I'm glad I didn't.

It seems that if one does not react the way everyone expects them to, then that person has something wrong with them. So now I'm a little mad.

 

Well you somewhat slipped again, but not to far, ha. Just to correct a few things.

This is sound policy for a teacher! I however am not a student and concluded as most everyone did within this thread! Marcia is still sticking up for you though, "He was simply reacting the way God wired him -- with statistics".

UHH? Your message has changed and thus why my view has changed! Otherwise, please show in your initial posts where you ever noted the mans death, or anyone's death, or the event at all; was a "tragedy"! As again, I most assuredly will apologize. This is only what you have recently come to express after the non-debate.

Are we in the same thread, ha? No, this view was not in your original posts! This view has only recently come about but is welcomed!

Galation, I do apologize and did not mean to put that in quotes as per you. It was the word I used earlier and why I put it in quotes. It was an accurate description though given others posts.

This is an completely inaccurate description. People took issue with your initial callous attitude toward the death of a man and tragic event! You simply wanted to discuss statistics -versus- noting the trajedy by all involved. Which was the intention of the op. In addition, who in the world would be upset that schools are safer than they possibly thought?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amen and great point! Thanks Galatian:thumbsup:

take care, Ralph

 

Marcia, I appreciate and understood what you were doing. With my earlier example and with what El_Guero is saying. A man was murdered at his school by a student. Irrespective of where it happened; there are many people living with heartache over something which should not have occurred.

El_Guero asked for prayer and showed concern. Most did just that with exception of Galation. Who initially started out by simply pointing out statistics. Who cares! Try explaining that to those involved. If someone would like to discuss what we can do to solve these problems then offer it up! Let's discuss what needs to take place as concerned parents and citizens. But such was never offered.

Galatian has since shown an amiable and concerned attitude.


Take care, Ralph:wavey: