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Another thing a Calvinist has never done.

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utilyan

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If it is only the message itself that saves, as you guys are claiming, everyone would be saved. Obviously it is more than the message.

You are almost there buddy.

Real simple question brother. If God wanted the message itself to save, Does God have the power to do so?

I feel you are pigeonholing ,that is restricting, the means by which God can do anything.

I'm not insisting for you to say he actually making a mere message save, But to tell us is that within his capacity to do if he wanted it that way.

Simply if God wants a mere message to save can he do this?


Because I believe God is capable of even pulling off this Calvinist fantasy if he wanted to.

Actually believing God is sovereign entails capable of doing the impossible.

1 Corinthians 1

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


The message, preaching, gospel, word, is what it is.
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
If it is only the message itself that saves, as you guys are claiming, everyone would be saved. Obviously it is more than the message.
Your wrong as usual. We have to believe that message. Many don't!. Just like you do scripture you assume much more than what scripture says. The gospel is the power to Salvation.With out which you cannot believe in Christ
MB
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Your wrong as usual. We have to believe that message. Many don't!. Just like you do scripture you assume much more than what scripture says. The gospel is the power to Salvation.With out which you cannot believe in Christ
MB
Again, what is the Gospel? Are you referring to the message? Or are you referring to the events of the message. Those are not the same thing.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Again, what is the Gospel? Are you referring to the message? Or are you referring to the events of the message. Those are not the same thing.
I'm surprised that you don't know what the gospel is. The gospel is the good news of Salvation. With out which there can be no Salvation. It's simple you can't know God with out it. He won't save a man unless that man believes. We acquire faith in Christ from the Bible With out faith there can be no grace with which to be saved.
MB
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised that you don't know what the gospel is. The gospel is the good news of Salvation. With out which there can be no Salvation. It's simple you can't know God with out it. He won't save a man unless that man believes. We acquire faith in Christ from the Bible With out faith there can be no grace with which to be saved.
MB
Ok the message itself, just the news itself, saves nobody. Nor does the Bible claim that it does.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'm surprised that you don't know what the gospel is. The gospel is the good news of Salvation. With out which there can be no Salvation. It's simple you can't know God with out it. He won't save a man unless that man believes. We acquire faith in Christ from the Bible With out faith there can be no grace with which to be saved.
MB
God grants saving faith!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Ok the message itself, just the news itself, saves nobody. Nor does the Bible claim that it does.
How would you explain your not knowing Christ in the first place if you were with out it? I don't believe men actually have visions any more and I don't know why. The Bible is good news because we get to know our creator through it. We learn about Salvation and how to obtain it from the Gospel. Yet you claim it does nothing to bring about Salvation. You think the way you do because of Calvinism. This is why you do not understand the truth.
MB
 

MB

Well-Known Member
God grants saving faith!
Not true God gave us the Bible and it being preached to us is what gives us faith in Christ. The Bible never says God grants us faith. This is Calvinism's nonsense.
Prove if you can.The truth is in Rom 10: 17
MB
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not true God gave us the Bible and it being preached to us is what gives us faith in Christ. The Bible never says God grants us faith. This is Calvinism's nonsense.
Prove if you can.The truth is in Rom 10: 17
MB
The message does not magically grant faith to whoever hears it, as only those who have ears to hear will actually be able to hear it!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
The message does not magically grant faith to whoever hears it, as only those who have ears to hear will actually be able to hear it!
Gentiles hear it.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
MB
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
How would you explain your not knowing Christ in the first place if you were with out it? I don't believe men actually have visions any more and I don't know why. The Bible is good news because we get to know our creator through it. We learn about Salvation and how to obtain it from the Gospel. Yet you claim it does nothing to bring about Salvation. You think the way you do because of Calvinism. This is why you do not understand the truth.
MB
You have completely mischaracterized what I have said. I never stated the message has no role in bringing about ones salvation. They must absolutely hear the message. How did you get anything else from what I have said?

What I said was, the message is not what saves.
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scripture literally says the message is the power of God multiple times.

Its like you guys think even GOD is totally depraved. HE can't even make a message do what he wants.
 
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Wesley Briggman

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Site Supporter
Charles H. Spurgeon
January 14, 2021
Morning Reading
Mighty to save.
—Isaiah 63:1
By the words "to save" we understand the whole of the great work of salvation, from the first holy desire onward to complete sanctification. The words are multum in parro: indeed, here is all mercy in one word. Christ is not only "mighty to save" those who repent, but He is able to make men repent. He will carry those to heaven who believe; but He is, moreover, mighty to give men new hearts and to work faith in them. He is mighty to make the man who hates holiness love it, and to constrain the despiser of His name to bend the knee before Him. Nay, this is not all the meaning, for the divine power is equally seen in the after-work. The life of a believer is a series of miracles wrought by "the Mighty God." The bush burns, but is not consumed. He is mighty to keep His people holy after He has made them so, and to preserve them in his fear and love until He consummates their spiritual existence in heaven. Christ's might doth not lie in making a believer and then leaving him to shift for himself; but He who begins the good work carries it on; He who imparts the first germ of life in the dead soul, prolongs the divine existence, and strengthens it until it bursts asunder every bond of sin, and the soul leaps from earth, perfected in glory. Believer, here is encouragement. Art thou praying for some beloved one? Oh, give not up thy prayers, for Christ is "mighty to save." You are powerless to reclaim the rebel, but your Lord is Almighty. Lay hold on that mighty arm, and rouse it to put forth its strength. Does your own case trouble you? Fear not, for His strength is sufficient for you. Whether to begin with others, or to carry on the work in you, Jesus is "mighty to save"; the best proof of which lies in the fact that He has saved you. What a thousand mercies that you have not found Him mighty to destroy!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Charles H. Spurgeon
January 14, 2021

Morning Reading
Mighty to save.
—Isaiah 63:1
By the words "to save" we understand the whole of the great work of salvation, from the first holy desire onward to complete sanctification. The words are multum in parro: indeed, here is all mercy in one word. Christ is not only "mighty to save" those who repent, but He is able to make men repent. He will carry those to heaven who believe; but He is, moreover, mighty to give men new hearts and to work faith in them. He is mighty to make the man who hates holiness love it, and to constrain the despiser of His name to bend the knee before Him. Nay, this is not all the meaning, for the divine power is equally seen in the after-work. The life of a believer is a series of miracles wrought by "the Mighty God." The bush burns, but is not consumed. He is mighty to keep His people holy after He has made them so, and to preserve them in his fear and love until He consummates their spiritual existence in heaven. Christ's might doth not lie in making a believer and then leaving him to shift for himself; but He who begins the good work carries it on; He who imparts the first germ of life in the dead soul, prolongs the divine existence, and strengthens it until it bursts asunder every bond of sin, and the soul leaps from earth, perfected in glory. Believer, here is encouragement. Art thou praying for some beloved one? Oh, give not up thy prayers, for Christ is "mighty to save." You are powerless to reclaim the rebel, but your Lord is Almighty. Lay hold on that mighty arm, and rouse it to put forth its strength. Does your own case trouble you? Fear not, for His strength is sufficient for you. Whether to begin with others, or to carry on the work in you, Jesus is "mighty to save"; the best proof of which lies in the fact that He has saved you. What a thousand mercies that you have not found Him mighty to destroy!

Being made to repent would destroy the Love involved. It is not a true repentance unless it comes from the heart.
MB
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Charles H. Spurgeon
January 14, 2021

Morning Reading
Mighty to save.
—Isaiah 63:1
By the words "to save" we understand the whole of the great work of salvation, from the first holy desire onward to complete sanctification. The words are multum in parro: indeed, here is all mercy in one word. Christ is not only "mighty to save" those who repent, but He is able to make men repent. He will carry those to heaven who believe; but He is, moreover, mighty to give men new hearts and to work faith in them. He is mighty to make the man who hates holiness love it, and to constrain the despiser of His name to bend the knee before Him. Nay, this is not all the meaning, for the divine power is equally seen in the after-work. The life of a believer is a series of miracles wrought by "the Mighty God." The bush burns, but is not consumed. He is mighty to keep His people holy after He has made them so, and to preserve them in his fear and love until He consummates their spiritual existence in heaven. Christ's might doth not lie in making a believer and then leaving him to shift for himself; but He who begins the good work carries it on; He who imparts the first germ of life in the dead soul, prolongs the divine existence, and strengthens it until it bursts asunder every bond of sin, and the soul leaps from earth, perfected in glory. Believer, here is encouragement. Art thou praying for some beloved one? Oh, give not up thy prayers, for Christ is "mighty to save." You are powerless to reclaim the rebel, but your Lord is Almighty. Lay hold on that mighty arm, and rouse it to put forth its strength. Does your own case trouble you? Fear not, for His strength is sufficient for you. Whether to begin with others, or to carry on the work in you, Jesus is "mighty to save"; the best proof of which lies in the fact that He has saved you. What a thousand mercies that you have not found Him mighty to destroy!


Not even you guys ever tell a story where GOD was NO WHERE on the radar......you were minding your own business watching TV and reading a newspaper and then ZAP.


The story seems to always be ALREADY CHRISTIAN, Gets easily stumped by a Calvinist.


Always a guy who doesn't know his faith.....
 
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