Lorelei
As I said, your mind is made up and unfortunately locked. I hold no hope nor desire to sway you. But neither you nor Chet has given any proof, just your interpretation and opinion.
You indicated that "when that which is perfect is come" has to refer to the Word of God, and not to Jesus Christ. I hate to be the one to break the news to you but the Word of God is Jesus Christ.
And this manuscript we hold so dear, and which many of us hold as true and inerrant, is but a snapshot of the real McCoy! We see now as thru a glass, darkly, but then face to face. I have trouble understanding "face to face" as looking at a book, really as anything other than just that....... in the presence of our Lord and Savior.
Is the Bible the complete word of God? John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
KJV
You said, "So you believe that the Bible is incomplete and further prophesies are yet to be given?"
I believe that the Bible contains everything that God intended for the Bible to contain. If God speaks there will be further prophecies.
You said, "I do beleive that tongues have ceased, but as I said, I confirm that belief by testing it with scripture and each time I find someone claiming to have this gift, they are always practicing it in a way that violates those instructions of the Lord. This only confirms that belief."
You scolded the one for using tongues in private prayer. And clearly that is what is told by scripture to do if there were no appropriate venue in church, i.e.... no one to interpret. So then it appears that in your opinion, anytime anyone is using this gift they are in violation of your belief. Scripture seems to have nothing to do with it.
You said, "As for knowledge, how does one gain knowledge today? Is it a mysterious gift, or does it come from a sincere and diligent study of the Word?"
I have known many, many people who have thru sincere and diligent study of his word, arrived at some of the most unGodly conclusions. I still believe that we are led and taught by the revelation of the spirit. It helps if you listen to what it says, and not just for what you want to hear. Another important factor is to have what is scripturally called "ears to hear".
Chet said, "Parable two shows a time frame as to when “that which is perfect” will come. He says, “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” Paul is using an illustration of a time frame by using a life-span:
Baby.......Child.............Man..........Death"
So I guess we take this to mean that when Paul became a man, the gifts ceased.... No, wait, that won't work...., I got it... In one life span, gifts would cease... I hate to say it Chet, but that is about as lame as anything I have heard on this board.
1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things
KJV
1 Cor 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
KJV
Could it be that Paul was just telling them to grow up, to stop acting childish??????
By now that you may have guessed that I am not a cessationist. One small reason is that I can't understand including instructions in a book that would not apply to those who were reading the book. Then why put them in the book????? Perhaps we need a disclaimer, "These instructions apply only to those who read them before they were written." As I said that is one small reason. The major reason is I have no scriptural evidence to deny their exhistance. Lots of opinions, but no scripture to back them up.
Now on a very serious side, I do not attend a tongue speaking church. I do not believe that speaking in tongues is necessary for nor a conclusive sign of salvation. I have been in those groups where those who did not speak in tongues were considered less than, and I disagree completely. I think that these gifts are greatly abused and not often used scripturally. But..... I do not deny there exhistance. And I do disagree with those who believe they have ceased.
As I said, your mind is made up and unfortunately locked. I hold no hope nor desire to sway you. But neither you nor Chet has given any proof, just your interpretation and opinion.
You indicated that "when that which is perfect is come" has to refer to the Word of God, and not to Jesus Christ. I hate to be the one to break the news to you but the Word of God is Jesus Christ.
And this manuscript we hold so dear, and which many of us hold as true and inerrant, is but a snapshot of the real McCoy! We see now as thru a glass, darkly, but then face to face. I have trouble understanding "face to face" as looking at a book, really as anything other than just that....... in the presence of our Lord and Savior.
Is the Bible the complete word of God? John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
KJV
You said, "So you believe that the Bible is incomplete and further prophesies are yet to be given?"
I believe that the Bible contains everything that God intended for the Bible to contain. If God speaks there will be further prophecies.
You said, "I do beleive that tongues have ceased, but as I said, I confirm that belief by testing it with scripture and each time I find someone claiming to have this gift, they are always practicing it in a way that violates those instructions of the Lord. This only confirms that belief."
You scolded the one for using tongues in private prayer. And clearly that is what is told by scripture to do if there were no appropriate venue in church, i.e.... no one to interpret. So then it appears that in your opinion, anytime anyone is using this gift they are in violation of your belief. Scripture seems to have nothing to do with it.
You said, "As for knowledge, how does one gain knowledge today? Is it a mysterious gift, or does it come from a sincere and diligent study of the Word?"
I have known many, many people who have thru sincere and diligent study of his word, arrived at some of the most unGodly conclusions. I still believe that we are led and taught by the revelation of the spirit. It helps if you listen to what it says, and not just for what you want to hear. Another important factor is to have what is scripturally called "ears to hear".
Chet said, "Parable two shows a time frame as to when “that which is perfect” will come. He says, “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” Paul is using an illustration of a time frame by using a life-span:
Baby.......Child.............Man..........Death"
So I guess we take this to mean that when Paul became a man, the gifts ceased.... No, wait, that won't work...., I got it... In one life span, gifts would cease... I hate to say it Chet, but that is about as lame as anything I have heard on this board.
1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things
KJV
1 Cor 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
KJV
Could it be that Paul was just telling them to grow up, to stop acting childish??????
By now that you may have guessed that I am not a cessationist. One small reason is that I can't understand including instructions in a book that would not apply to those who were reading the book. Then why put them in the book????? Perhaps we need a disclaimer, "These instructions apply only to those who read them before they were written." As I said that is one small reason. The major reason is I have no scriptural evidence to deny their exhistance. Lots of opinions, but no scripture to back them up.
Now on a very serious side, I do not attend a tongue speaking church. I do not believe that speaking in tongues is necessary for nor a conclusive sign of salvation. I have been in those groups where those who did not speak in tongues were considered less than, and I disagree completely. I think that these gifts are greatly abused and not often used scripturally. But..... I do not deny there exhistance. And I do disagree with those who believe they have ceased.
