Another verse that blows ME out of the water

[TCGreek]

oh, I see you caught it.

So how much of this parable should we keep and how much should we discard?

 

[James_Newman]

How much of this parable should we use and how much should we discard?

Obviously we should use the parts we like and throw away the parts we don't, right?:laugh: I've shown in the other thread that parabolic warnings are always literal.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Why would you throw this verse out?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I see nothing in there about people missing out on the Millenial Kingdom.

This passage is being likened unto the Kingdom of Heaven, not the Millenial Kingdom. They are two different Kingdoms, are they not?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

here goes the circle again.:laugh:

 

[James_Newman]

I see nothing in there about people missing out on the Millenial Kingdom.

This passage is being likened unto the Kingdom of Heaven, not the Millenial Kingdom. They are two different Kingdoms, are they not?

I don't know, are they?

 

[James_Newman]

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

What does it mean to be delivered to the tormentors if I don't forgive my brother his trespasses?

 

[TCGreek]

I'll give you fifteen.

Matthew 18:21-35
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

1. What is the literalism behind 10,000 talents?

25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

2. What is the literalism behind this quote?

26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshiped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

3. What is the literalism behind this quote?

28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him a hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

4. What is the literalism behind this?

31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?

5. What is the literalism behind this?

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

6. What is the literalism behind this?

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

7. Let's see what this verse doesn't teach:

a. This verse does not teach 1000yrs punishment in hell for sins.

b. This verse does not teach that believers will miss out on the Millennial reign.

8. Rather I propose this understanding of this verse, which does not contradict other doctrines of Scripture:

a. This verse is dealing with God's disciplinary work in the lives of his children in this life for their sins (see Heb 12:4-11).

b. This conclusion accords well with Psalm 38.

9. Along with many other Christians, I believe that God disciplines his children for sins in this life.

 

[James_Newman]

Did you even look at my thread on interpreting parables? Why not let the bible teach us how to understand parables instead of suggesting our own better way?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Did you even look at my thread on interpreting parables? Why not let the bible teach us how to understand parables instead of suggesting our own better way?

Are you not suggesting your own way by saying a saved person will not enter the Millenial Kingdom? Scripture nowhere says a saved person will miss out on the Millenial Kingdom.

 

[James_Newman]

Are you not suggesting your own way by saying a saved person will not enter the Millenial Kingdom? Scripture nowhere says a saved person will miss out on the Millenial Kingdom.

The parabolic warning of being delivered to the tormentors is literal. What does it mean in the parable? Thats what it means literally. Likewise.

 

[Hope of Glory]

. . .as I wait for the other shoe to drop.

Here's the other shoe:

*We are "once-saved-always-saved" eternally in eternity solely by believing on the finished work of Christ, adding absolutely no works of our own to either insure or verify that salvation. This salvation cannot be lost, given up or taken away under any circumstances.

It's obvious from this statement that you believe in a works-based salvation, and you think that all saved people are going to the lake of fire, and...

 

[TCGreek]

The parabolic warning of being delivered to the tormentors is literal. What does it mean in the parable? Thats what it means literally. Likewise.

1. Then according to you, we are only going to be tormented for monetary related matters.

2. It was a failure to show mercy to another who owe money that got him this torment.

3. I see no reason to stop the literalism.

 

[James_Newman]

1. Then according to you, we are only going to be tormented for monetary related matters.

not only, but certainly money is going to be the cause of a lot of Christians not forgiving their brothers.

2. It was a failure to show mercy to another who owe money that got him this torment.

3. I see no reason to stop the literalism.

Then why do you stop the literalism? Did you look at the thread I started on interpretting parables yet?

 

[TCGreek]

not only, but certainly money is going to be the cause of a lot of Christians not forgiving their brothers.

Then why do you stop the literalism? Did you look at the thread I started on interpretting parables yet?

What am I missing that is not already in your interpretation of the parables to further your doctrine of the Kingdom?

 

[James_Newman]

What am I missing that is not already in your interpretation of the parables to further your doctrine of the Kingdom?

IMO it's a very interesting subject in itself, the interpretation of parables. Where do we get our principles of interpretation? Does the bible itself, and Jesus Himself, not teach us how to interpret them? If not, we're kind of grasping at straws in the dark...

 

[TCGreek]

IMO it's a very interesting subject in itself, the interpretation of parables. Where do we get our principles of interpretation? Does the bible itself, and Jesus Himself, not teach us how to interpret them? If not, we're kind of grasping at straws in the dark...

1. When Jesus gives the interpretation to a parable that he related, that I can live with.

2. But when someone, comes along and say this is how a parable must be interpreted to fit a theology imposed upon the text of Scripture, well, that's another thing.

3. I pitched my tent with the likes of Fee and Stuart, and Stein and many others who teach that a parable conveys one basic idea.

 

[npetreley]

3. I pitched my tent with the likes of Fee and Stuart, and Stein and many others who teach that a parable conveys one basic idea.

Absolutely. Enough of this theology by etymology, implication, innuendo and weaving of unrelated symbols pulled from various parts of the Bible.

 

[James_Newman]

1. When Jesus gives the interpretation to a parable that he related, that I can live with.

2. But when someone, comes along and say this is how a parable must be interpreted to fit a theology imposed upon the text of Scripture, well, that's another thing.

3. I pitched my tent with the likes of Fee and Stuart, and Stein and many others who teach that a parable conveys one basic idea.

Then I can't help you. You have your higher authorities, I have mine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Then I can't help you. You have your higher authorities, I have mine.

Did James Newman just admit that he is not serving the same God as TCGreek?

 

[James_Newman]

Did James Newman just admit that he is not serving the same God as TCGreek?

yuk yuk yuk