Another View Of Jesus Christ?

[Word101]

Jesus is sometimes portrayed as a destitute wanderer or even a homeless person, who had nothing and no place to call home? He is usually associated with poverty and suffering, than with the opposite? But do the scriptures support this popular depiction?

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham…… - Matthew 1:1-16

Within the bloodline or genealogy of Jesus, were more than a dozen kings and other prominent Biblical figures. So, as a descendant of greatness and wealth, was Jesus really a nobody with nothing, in the material sense?
And among the ancestors of Jesus, were Abraham, who was extremely rich ( Genesis 13:2 ) and King Solomon, who also was extremely rich ( 2 Chronicles 9:13 ), which raises the question, as to whether some of the wealth was passed down or trickled down to Jesus, from the many Kings and other well-to-do people in His bloodline? Could Jesus have been less-well-off, given the wealth and greatness of His descendants?

An angel of the Lord, appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take you, Mary your wife….” - Matthew 1:20

Why did the angel address Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus by connecting him to the great King David? Why did the angel, find it necessary to remind Joseph of his royal bloodline, with all it’s greatness and wealth?

And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them, in the inn - Luke 2:7.

Was Jesus born in a manger, because His parents were poor or was it because there was no room at the inn, hotel or motel?And if the parents of Jesus had the resources to stay at the inn, hotel or motel, what does that say about their economic status? Did everyone have the means to stay at the inn, hotel or motel, in those days?
And does everyone have the resources, to stay at the inn, hotel or motel, in our time?

And after entering the house, they saw the Child with Mary, His mother….. opening their treasure chests, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh - Matthew 2:11

What did the parents of Jesus do with these gifts of high value? Did they just keep the gifts or did they convert them into money, and invested the money into something profitable? Did the parents of Jesus use the high value items for themselves or did they save them for their Son Jesus, to use when He grew up?
And how many people in those days were fortunate enough to have high value products like gold? Also, how many people, in our time, have high value items, that can be converted into a significant amount of money?

Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay His head - Matthew 8:20

Was Jesus really saying, that He did not have a home or was He saying, that He was always traveling and never in one place permanently, like foxes go back to their holes and birds go back to their nests every day?
Remember the wisemen visited Jesus in a house, when He was a child? The house may have belonged to His parents, but as their child, the house could be His home also?

But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow - Mark 4:38

If Jesus was asleep, in a boat, with His head resting on a pillow, did He really have nowhere to lay His head? How many destitute people can be comfortably asleep, in a boat, while other people operate the boat for them? Is this a picture of poverty or someone with resources?
And did Jesus own or rent the boat?

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarene’ - Matthew 2:23

If Jesus and His parents lived in Nazareth, did they have a house there or did they just hang out in the streets? And if the prophets foretold, that Jesus would be a Nazarene or a resident of Nazareth, were they talking about someone, who would be a Nazarene, but without a home inNazareth?

So when they had performed all things, according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth - Luke 2:39

Did Jesus and His parents return to their own city, called Nazareth, but did not have a house there? Was Nazareth the home city of Jesus, but His parents had no home there?

On the third day, there was a wedding, in Cana of Galilee….. both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding…. - John 2:1-2

Is it common for people with no homes and nothing or little to give, to be invited to a wedding? And do destitute people normally dress up and groom themselves , to attend social events like weddings?

He chose twelve, whom He also named apostles. - Luke 6:13

How many people with little or nothing travel around with a group of people or entourage? How did Jesus convince twelve men, to abandon their businesses and professions, plus long absences from their families, to join His traveling ministry, if He had no resources, to make up for their sacrifice?
How many people would abandon the source of their income for nothing or something less? Did Jesus make them an offer, they could not refuse?

Jesus saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow me“ - Luke 5:27

Tax collector s were educated financial professionals, with a standard of living above the regular people.. So, how did the tax collector give up his profession, without a similar or better offer from Jesus?
The Bible is just a summary of events, and does not give us all the little details, but it gives us enough to make logical conclusions and ask legitimate questions.

He saw James and John his brother….. mending their nets…. He called to them….. they left their father Zebedee in the boat, with the hired servants and went after Him - Mark 1:19-20

How many regular people have hired servants or employees? And how could anyone with little or nothing, approach these professional fishermen, with hired servants and responsibilities of managing a business, to give it all up , for something else?
How did Jesus attract these men to His cause, if He had no resources?

Luke the beloved physician and Demas greet you……. - Colossians 4:14

And once again, how do you get a medical doctor to abandon his well paying and comfortable profession to join a traveling ministry, without a decent or better offer?
How many people will give up their current source of income, for something where they will make less?
And why did Jesus seek professionals and business people, when He could easily get regular people, without much negotiation and offering them less?

He was in the boat. There were also other boats with Him - Mark 4:36

Do regular people travel in a boat accompanied or escorted by other boats? And who owned or rented these boats?How many regular people own or rent boats?

But one of His disciples, Judas said, “why was this fragrance oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor - John 12:1-5

Why would Judas talk about giving to the poor, if Jesus and His disciples were poor themselves? And why would Judas mention giving to the poor, if Jesus had never given or did not regularly give to the poor?
Do the poor usually give to the poor?

…he was a thief and had the money box, and he used to take what was put in it - John 12:6

If Jesus had very little financially, why did He need Judas to watch over or handle His finances? How many regular people have other people to specifically manage their finances?
And why was Judas confident, that he could steal from the money box and not be detected, if there was very little in the money box?

When they had crucified Him, they divided His clothes by casting lots - Matthew 27:35

Why did the Roman soldiers want His clothes, after crucifying Jesus, if the clothes were ordinary or of low value? Does everyone or anyone want the clothes of regular people, when they die?
Have you ever witnessed or heard of people arguing or fighting over the clothes of dead regular people?

 

[JonC]

1. Within the bloodline or genealogy of Jesus, were more than a dozen kings and other prominent Biblical figures. So, as a descendant of greatness and wealth, was Jesus really a nobody with nothing, in the material sense?

Yes. Centuries had passed and kingdoms fallen. Between David there was the Assyeriabs and Bablyonian, the Seleucids, Ptolemies and Romans.

2. Why did the angel address Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus by connecting him to the great King David?

Because this was Jewish custom.

3. Was Jesus born in a manger, because His parents were poor or was it because there was no room at the inn, hotel or motel?

There were no hotels or motels in 1st century Bethlehem. It was the custom to take in travelers. The "manger" would have been in the house, but in an area where animals were kept. If Joseph was wealthy he would have been honored and a member of the family displaced for a time.

4. What did the parents of Jesus do with these gifts of high value?

The gifts presented were valuable, but there is no hint that they amounted to wealth. These were symbolic gifts one would give to a newborn king.

5. Was Jesus really saying, that He did not have a home or was He saying, that He was always traveling and never in one place permanently, like foxes go back to their holes and birds go back to their nests every day?
But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow - Mark 4:38

The pillow is a cushion in the boat. Yes, Jesus did not have a home but instead stayed with people during His ministry.

6. If Jesus was asleep, in a boat, with His head resting on a pillow, did He really have nowhere to lay His head? How many destitute people can be comfortably asleep, in a boat, while other people operate the boat for them? Is this a picture of poverty or someone with resources?
And did Jesus own or rent the boat?

The amount of people who could comfortably sleep depends on the size of the boat and is obsolete as the reason nobody slept was the storm. Several of Jesus' disciples, including two of the Twelve, were fishermen.


7. If Jesus and His parents lived in Nazareth, did they have a house there or did they just hang out in the streets? And if the prophets foretold, that Jesus would be a Nazarene or a resident of Nazareth, were they talking about someone, who would be a Nazarene, but without a home in Nazareth?

Jesus lived with Joseph and Mary and with extended family (as was the 1st century custom). Nazareth was not a place where the wealthy lived. It was a farming settlement. The homes were primarily built of mud or in a hillside. This is why the Jew's said "dies anything good come out of Nazareth?". Today we could use New Jersey


8. Did Jesus and His parents return to their own city, called Nazareth, but did not have a house there? Was Nazareth the home city of Jesus, but His parents had no home there?

Again, homes were small (at most consisting of 4 rooms) and extended family lived together. One could move from town to town without actually owning a house.

9. Is it common for people with no homes and nothing or little to give, to be invited to a wedding?

Yes. In the 1st century this was not only common but expected.

10. And do destitute people normally dress up and groom themselves , to attend social events like weddings?

Scripture does not say Jesus was "destitute", only a man of no wealth (Isaiah 53).


11. How many people with little or nothing travel around with a group of people or entourage? How did Jesus convince twelve men, to abandon their businesses and professions, plus long absences from their families, to join His traveling ministry, if He had no resources, to make up for their sacrifice?

A lot of people did, many false prophets claiming to be the Messiah. Also, John the Baptist was one of these. Imagine following a guy who had nothing, lived in the wilderness, ate only locust and honey.


12. Tax collector s were educated financial professionals, with a standard of living above the regular people.. So, how did the tax collector give up his profession, without a similar or better offer from Jesus?

Scripture actually tells us this. He was convicted. Tax collectors purchased that position. They collected taxes but made money by charging more for their service.

13. How many regular people have hired servants or employees? And how could anyone with little or nothing, approach these professional fishermen, with hired servants and responsibilities of managing a business, to give it all up , for something else? How did Jesus attract these men to His cause, if He had no resources?

John and James were not poor. They were successful fishermen. Jesus attracted them the same way He attracts people today. They valued being a part of His Kindgom more than making money.

14. And once again, how do you get a medical doctor to abandon his well paying and comfortable profession to join a traveling ministry, without a decent or better offer?

Same answer as #13. How were you convinced to turn from this life to the Kingdom?

15. Do regular people travel in a boat accompanied or escorted by other boats? And who owned or rented these boats?How many regular people own or rent boats?

Many regular people in Galilee would have owned boats. I am a regular person and own a boat, but these guys made their living as fishermen. They had boats and nets.


16. Why would Judas talk about giving to the poor, if Jesus and His disciples were poor themselves? And why would Judas mention giving to the poor, if Jesus had never given or did not regularly give to the poor?
Do the poor usually give to the poor?

Yes, the poor often give to the poor. The moneybox was for the use of the ministry. If you read the passage you will know why Judas was concerned about wasting the oil (it was taking from his pocket).


17. If Jesus had very little financially, why did He need Judas to watch over or handle His finances? How many regular people have other people to specifically manage their finances?
And why was Judas confident, that he could steal from the money box and not be detected, if there was very little in the money box?

Judas did not manage Jesus' finances. Why is anybody who steals confident that they will not be detected?

18. Why did the Roman soldiers want His clothes, after crucifying Jesus, if the clothes were ordinary or of low value?

They cast lots for Jesus' tunic because it was seamless. Cloth was reused, and a seamless tunic would be more desired as it was one piece. They cast lots rather than splitting the cloth. Again, Scripture tells us this part.

Yes, this includes the clothes normal person would wear.

That said, a lot of what occurred fulfilled Scripture and also had symbolic meaning. Jesus was buried in a new tomb (a tomb that had not been used). This is something one would expect of a wealthy man. But it was a borrowed tomb (not a rented one).

 

[Aaron]

What did the parents of Jesus do with these gifts of high value? Did they just keep the gifts or did they convert them into money, and invested the money into something profitable?

I'd say they financed their trip to Egypt with the gifts.

 

[Word101]

1. Within the bloodline or genealogy of Jesus, were more than a dozen kings and other prominent Biblical figures. So, as a descendant of greatness and wealth, was Jesus really a nobody with nothing, in the material sense?

Yes. Centuries had passed and kingdoms fallen. Between David there was the Assyeriabs and Bablyonian, the Seleucids, Ptolemies and Romans.

2. Why did the angel address Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus by connecting him to the great King David?

Because this was Jewish custom.

3. Was Jesus born in a manger, because His parents were poor or was it because there was no room at the inn, hotel or motel?

There were no hotels or motels in 1st century Bethlehem. It was the custom to take in travelers. The "manger" would have been in the house, but in an area where animals were kept. If Joseph was wealthy he would have been honored and a member of the family displaced for a time.

4. What did the parents of Jesus do with these gifts of high value?

The gifts presented were valuable, but there is no hint that they amounted to wealth. These were symbolic gifts one would give to a newborn king.

5. Was Jesus really saying, that He did not have a home or was He saying, that He was always traveling and never in one place permanently, like foxes go back to their holes and birds go back to their nests every day?
But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow - Mark 4:38

The pillow is a cushion in the boat. Yes, Jesus did not have a home but instead stayed with people during His ministry.

6. If Jesus was asleep, in a boat, with His head resting on a pillow, did He really have nowhere to lay His head? How many destitute people can be comfortably asleep, in a boat, while other people operate the boat for them? Is this a picture of poverty or someone with resources?
And did Jesus own or rent the boat?

The amount of people who could comfortably sleep depends on the size of the boat and is obsolete as the reason nobody slept was the storm. Several of Jesus' disciples, including two of the Twelve, were fishermen.


7. If Jesus and His parents lived in Nazareth, did they have a house there or did they just hang out in the streets? And if the prophets foretold, that Jesus would be a Nazarene or a resident of Nazareth, were they talking about someone, who would be a Nazarene, but without a home in Nazareth?

Jesus lived with Joseph and Mary and with extended family (as was the 1st century custom). Nazareth was not a place where the wealthy lived. It was a farming settlement. The homes were primarily built of mud or in a hillside. This is why the Jew's said "dies anything good come out of Nazareth?". Today we could use New Jersey


8. Did Jesus and His parents return to their own city, called Nazareth, but did not have a house there? Was Nazareth the home city of Jesus, but His parents had no home there?

Again, homes were small (at most consisting of 4 rooms) and extended family lived together. One could move from town to town without actually owning a house.

9. Is it common for people with no homes and nothing or little to give, to be invited to a wedding?

Yes. In the 1st century this was not only common but expected.

10. And do destitute people normally dress up and groom themselves , to attend social events like weddings?

Scripture does not say Jesus was "destitute", only a man of no wealth (Isaiah 53).


11. How many people with little or nothing travel around with a group of people or entourage? How did Jesus convince twelve men, to abandon their businesses and professions, plus long absences from their families, to join His traveling ministry, if He had no resources, to make up for their sacrifice?

A lot of people did, many false prophets claiming to be the Messiah. Also, John the Baptist was one of these. Imagine following a guy who had nothing, lived in the wilderness, ate only locust and honey.


12. Tax collector s were educated financial professionals, with a standard of living above the regular people.. So, how did the tax collector give up his profession, without a similar or better offer from Jesus?

Scripture actually tells us this. He was convicted. Tax collectors purchased that position. They collected taxes but made money by charging more for their service.

13. How many regular people have hired servants or employees? And how could anyone with little or nothing, approach these professional fishermen, with hired servants and responsibilities of managing a business, to give it all up , for something else? How did Jesus attract these men to His cause, if He had no resources?

John and James were not poor. They were successful fishermen. Jesus attracted them the same way He attracts people today. They valued being a part of His Kindgom more than making money.

14. And once again, how do you get a medical doctor to abandon his well paying and comfortable profession to join a traveling ministry, without a decent or better offer?

Same answer as #13. How were you convinced to turn from this life to the Kingdom?

15. Do regular people travel in a boat accompanied or escorted by other boats? And who owned or rented these boats?How many regular people own or rent boats?

Many regular people in Galilee would have owned boats. I am a regular person and own a boat, but these guys made their living as fishermen. They had boats and nets.


16. Why would Judas talk about giving to the poor, if Jesus and His disciples were poor themselves? And why would Judas mention giving to the poor, if Jesus had never given or did not regularly give to the poor?
Do the poor usually give to the poor?

Yes, the poor often give to the poor. The moneybox was for the use of the ministry. If you read the passage you will know why Judas was concerned about wasting the oil (it was taking from his pocket).


17. If Jesus had very little financially, why did He need Judas to watch over or handle His finances? How many regular people have other people to specifically manage their finances?
And why was Judas confident, that he could steal from the money box and not be detected, if there was very little in the money box?

Judas did not manage Jesus' finances. Why is anybody who steals confident that they will not be detected?

18. Why did the Roman soldiers want His clothes, after crucifying Jesus, if the clothes were ordinary or of low value?

They cast lots for Jesus' tunic because it was seamless. Cloth was reused, and a seamless tunic would be more desired as it was one piece. They cast lots rather than splitting the cloth. Again, Scripture tells us this part.

Yes, this includes the clothes normal person would wear.

That said, a lot of what occurred fulfilled Scripture and also had symbolic meaning. Jesus was buried in a new tomb (a tomb that had not been used). This is something one would expect of a wealthy man. But it was a borrowed tomb (not a rented one).

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands that I give you today, the Lord your God, will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you, if you obey the Lord your God.
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country………….. You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out……… The Lord will make you the head and not the tail……. - Deuteronomy 28:1-14

Under the Old Covenant, God promised to bless the Israelites or Jews, and Jesus was also an Israelite or Jew. Even though the story of Jesus is listed and documented under the New Covenant, Jesus operated under the Old Covenant, because the New Covenant could not start until after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Was Jesus the perfect candidate to receive or experience the Old Covenant blessings? Or did the Old Covenant blessings miss Jesus?
If Jesus did not qualify for the Old Covenant blessings, then who did? Could God really bless other people and skip His own Son?

 

[37818]

Matthew gives the geneology through Solomon.
Luke gives the geneology through Nathan.

 

[JonC]

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands that I give you today, the Lord your God, will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you, if you obey the Lord your God.
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country………….. You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out……… The Lord will make you the head and not the tail……. - Deuteronomy 28:1-14

Under the Old Covenant, God promised to bless the Israelites or Jews, and Jesus was also an Israelite or Jew. Even though the story of Jesus is listed and documented under the New Covenant, Jesus operated under the Old Covenant, because the New Covenant could not start until after the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Was Jesus the perfect candidate to receive or experience the Old Covenant blessings? Or did the Old Covenant blessings miss Jesus?
If Jesus did not qualify for the Old Covenant blessings, then who did? Could God really bless other people and skip His own Son?

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. And yes, the Father exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name that every knee will bow. In the OT (several places including Isaiah, Psalms, Genesis and Ezekiel) we read of this fulfillment by Jesus in advance.


My question for you - as a Christian who obviously has read some of the Bible (given your posts):

1. How did you not know that Jesus was not a man of wealth?
2. How did you not know that Jesus DID fulfill the Law and relieve the blessing?
3. How did you not know where the boats came from?
4. How did you not know why the Romans cast lots for the tunic?
5. How did you not know the purpose of the gifts?
6. How did you not know why Judas objected to the use od the oil?


7. AND MOST IMPORTANT - How do you not know why a tax collector, a physician, a religious scholar, a businessman, a fisherman...who was doing well for themselves would leave all and follow Jesus?????



I do mean this in a rude way but the way your questions are presented it seems that you are asking questions easily answered by reading Scripture but in a way as to cast doubt in the minds of others that Scripture is true.

 

[Word101]

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant. And yes, the Father exalted Him and gave Him a name above every name that every knee will bow. In the OT (several places including Isaiah, Psalms, Genesis and Ezekiel) we read of this fulfillment by Jesus in advance.


My question for you - as a Christian who obviously has read some of the Bible (given your posts):

1. How did you not know that Jesus was not a man of wealth?
2. How did you not know that Jesus DID fulfill the Law and relieve the blessing?
3. How did you not know where the boats came from?
4. How did you not know why the Romans cast lots for the tunic?
5. How did you not know the purpose of the gifts?
6. How did you not know why Judas objected to the use od the oil?


7. AND MOST IMPORTANT - How do you not know why a tax collector, a physician, a religious scholar, a businessman, a fisherman...who was doing well for themselves would leave all and follow Jesus?????



I do mean this in a rude way but the way your questions are presented it seems that you are asking questions easily answered by reading Scripture but in a way as to cast doubt in the minds of others that Scripture is true.

#1 Jesus may not have been wealthy, but He certainly wasn’t poor, given the fact that He run a traveling ministry with 12 assistants, which required a considerable amount of resources.

#2 The blessings of the law was fulfilled, when Jesus was grown up and started His ministry, which means the blessings had to be still operational while Jesus was growing up and before launching His ministry.

#3 I still do not know for sure, where the boats came from. True, some of the disciples were fishermen and had boats, but scripture does not tell us if they used their own boats for ministry purposes.
There is one occasion, when Jesus stood in a fisherman’s boat to preach, but there is no record about Him using the boat for His travels.

# 4 The Bible does not tell us why the Roman soldiers cast lots for the tunic

#5 My question was not the purpose of the gifts, but what they did with the gifts.

#7 We all know why people would follow Jesus, but abandoning your business or profession without knowing how you will survive economically is unusual, especially if you have a family, that’s why I suspect there may have been a good offer from Jesus. Besides you don’t have to necessarily abandon your business or profession to follow Jesus.

 

[Marooncat79]

Mary and Joseph

1. Socially middle class like everyone else in their village

2. Economically. Lower class. How do you know? Luke 2:24, they offered 2 turtle doves which was only allowed for the destitute according to the OT

Bonus Question. In the OT was was the normal sacrifice for a 1st born son?

 

[Zaatar71]

The Lord Jesus was a Covenant keeper, keeping it perfectly. The blessings of Deut 28-33, would have been bestowed on Him.

 

[JonC]

#1 Jesus may not have been wealthy, but He certainly wasn’t poor, given the fact that He run a traveling ministry with 12 assistants, which required a considerable amount of resources.

#2 The blessings of the law was fulfilled, when Jesus was grown up and started His ministry, which means the blessings had to be still operational while Jesus was growing up and before launching His ministry.

#3 I still do not know for sure, where the boats came from. True, some of the disciples were fishermen and had boats, but scripture does not tell us if they used their own boats for ministry purposes.
There is one occasion, when Jesus stood in a fisherman’s boat to preach, but there is no record about Him using the boat for His travels.

# 4 The Bible does not tell us why the Roman soldiers cast lots for the tunic

#5 My question was not the purpose of the gifts, but what they did with the gifts.

#7 We all know why people would follow Jesus, but abandoning your business or profession without knowing how you will survive economically is unusual, especially if you have a family, that’s why I suspect there may have been a good offer from Jesus. Besides you don’t have to necessarily abandon your business or profession to follow Jesus.

1. How did Jesus provide? Wealth? No. How much did the Disciples have to give to the poor? How did Paul pay for his needs?

2. No, if this were the case then it would have been so with every person under the Law. Jesus was obedient to what? How could the blessing of the Law be gained prior to that obedience to God's command? Hint....it couldn't.
3. Scripture indicates thar all the Disciples had were avaliable to the ministry. Why would it exclude boats. Also, there were more disciples than the Twelve.

4. Yes, the Bible actually does.

5. The gifts were symbolic rather than substantial, intended as worship, but we can only speculate how they were ultimately used. I suspect they were used in traveling and living.

6. I agree. People are not saved with a usual faith. But no, there was not a financial offer to follow Jesus. That would be a self-interest dead faith (as you put it, "usual" faith).

 

[JonC]

One point made throughout Scripture is that Jesus, while not destitute, chose not to have material possessions. He was looked upon, by worldly standards, as lowly. He had no home but relied on hospitality. The money in the ministry (the money box) was not substantial enough to make 30 pieces of silver (about $350 in our economy today) a small amount. Another point made is those who followed Jeses left their old lives to follow Him.

 

[Word101]

1. How did Jesus provide? Wealth? No. How much did the Disciples have to give to the poor? How did Paul pay for his needs?

2. No, if this were the case then it would have been so with every person under the Law. Jesus was obedient to what? How could the blessing of the Law be gained prior to that obedience to God's command? Hint....it couldn't.
3. Scripture indicates thar all the Disciples had were avaliable to the ministry. Why would it exclude boats. Also, there were more disciples than the Twelve.

4. Yes, the Bible actually does.

5. The gifts were symbolic rather than substantial, intended as worship, but we can only speculate how they were ultimately used. I suspect they were used in traveling and living.

6. I agree. People are not saved with a usual faith. But no, there was not a financial offer to follow Jesus. That would be a self-interest dead faith (as you put it, "usual" faith).

#1 How Jesus provided for Himself and twelve others is what I am trying to understand.

#2 Everyone under the Old Covenant was not obedient, therefore everyone could not receive or experience the blessings. But there is no doubt that Jesus was among the obedient, who qualified for the blessings.
And Jesus did not have to die first, before He could experience any of the blessings.

#3 You have brought up a point, I never thought of. So, I thank you for that.

#6 I believe that Jesus, just like God is fair and just, and will not bring disciples who had families & responsibilities, into His ministry, without figuring out, what will happen to the families. And in those days, some may have been responsible for extended families.

 

[JonC]

#1 How Jesus provided for Himself and twelve others is what I am trying to understand.

#2 Everyone under the Old Covenant was not obedient, therefore everyone could not receive or experience the blessings. But there is no doubt that Jesus was among the obedient, who qualified for the blessings.
And Jesus did not have to die first, before He could experience any of the blessings.

#3 You have brought up a point, I never thought of. So, I thank you for that.

#6 I believe that Jesus, just like God is fair and just, and will not bring disciples who had families & responsibilities, into His ministry, without figuring out, what will happen to the families. And in those days, some may have been responsible for extended families.

1. Jesus provided for Himself and the Disciples primarily ththrough the hospitality of people. Luke 10 gives a good picture of this.

2. Jesus did have to die in order to be obedient. The Law demands that one "obey my voice". Jesus was obedient even to death on a cross. More importantly, however, is Jesus' own description of the kingdom He ushered in. This was a major misunderstanding between the Jews, the purpose of the Law, and God's plan.

3. Thank you. We learn from one another.

4. That belief is inconsistent with Scripture. Consider Jesus' words:

Many people were traveling with Jesus. He said to them, “If you come to me but will not leave your family, you cannot be my follower. You must love me more than your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters—even more than your own life! Whoever will not carry the cross that is given to them when they follow me cannot be my follower. ..You must leave everything you have to follow me. If not, you cannot be my follower."