Answer me, someone, please

Assuming you are aware that there are two judgments, one of deeds and one of FAITH. ALL are judged according to our deeds, but only those LACKING faith are judged because they lack faith! John 3:18, and Rev 20:14,15.

 

FALSE DOCTRINE!

Repentance is not a gift it is demanded of us!
Faith is not a Gift It is demanded of US for our salvation.
FAITH produces repentance! Not the other way around!

 

John 3:18 says this judgment is past, they are condemned already.

Rev. 20:14,15 says nothing about faith, but only that whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(Note death and hell are said to be cast into the lake of fire in vs. 14 and that this is the second death).

then vs. 15 (and also) whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No mention of faith whatsoever.

debtor to free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

 

IF Salvation is through faith, your name will be found in the book of life, because it is faith that brings us eternal life! Those who's names are not found in the book of life are those who have no faith in God else they would not be cast into the lake of fire.

2+2=4

 

Repentance seems to be the key to Heaven. And that is a gift of God's Grace.

David

 

For the Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

Faith is a channel through which we receive peace with God because of the Redemption, even the forgiveness of sins we have in Christ.

Faith is a channel only to provide evidence of the seal of that blessed hope having been born into us by the Spirit of Adoption.

Faith does not save us, does not eternally justify us, does not redeem us, does not sanctify us, but Faith is a sure evidence of the work of God's Holy Spirit operating in us to accomplish these things.

debtor to Free Grace,
Bro. Dallas

Sorry, I am going to have leave the discussion, I really apologize for this, but my opportunity is over.

I will try to return tomorrow if the Lord is willing.

 

No one can come to me unless the Father draws him.

No false doctrine, just pure Bible, how can a sinner come to Holiness without repentance. I could say you oppose the Gospel by your stubborn will

David

btw, I love God and I know you do too.

 

FALSE DOCTRINE!

Repentance is not a gift it is demanded of us!
Faith is not a Gift It is demanded of US for our salvation.
FAITH produces repentance! Not the other way around! </font>[/QUOTE]What do you do with this verse?


Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Romans 2

How did they get to become Christians if they find themselves in that state even after??

I am off out for a bit, back later, ciao.

David

 

Prayer is the key to heaven, Faith unlocks the door, repentance is making your robes spotless!

In the parable of the wedding feast, the bridegrooms father invited his friends and neighbors, all of who begged off with varying excuses. So the Father sent his servants out to invite all the "Whosoevers" to come to the free banquet in his Son's honor. Those who came, cleansed themselves and put on their finest spotless garments. However there was one who tried to enter who had not cleaned up and dressed properly and he was seized and cast out of the celebration.

By invitation: Who was invited?
Acceptance of the invitation: Who accepted?
Proper hygiene and dress: how were they attired?

CELEBRATION!
If repentance was the key to heaven how did the one get in there in the first place?

 

FALSE DOCTRINE!

Repentance is not a gift it is demanded of us!
Faith is not a Gift It is demanded of US for our salvation.
FAITH produces repentance! Not the other way around! </font>[/QUOTE]What do you do with this verse?


Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Romans 2

How did they get to become Christians if they find themselves in that state even after??

I am off out for a bit, back later, ciao.

David </font>[/QUOTE]Repentance is what BELIEVERS do, not unbelievers!
Who changes their ways before believing in the reason for change? NNE!

 

I'm curious how receiving a free gift is a work. At Christmas, when somone hands you a present, and you take it, you "worked" for the present because you physically grabbed it? An act is not necessarily a work, as when we accept Christ to be the our savior, that would take conscious thought or speach, which I guess would be considered a "work" also according to calvinism.

 

Making a good decision to have faith or accept the gift is an act of merit.

 

FALSE DOCTRINE!

Repentance is not a gift it is demanded of us!
Faith is not a Gift It is demanded of US for our salvation.
FAITH produces repentance! Not the other way around! </font>[/QUOTE]In other words, one must make the right decisions to merit salvation... thus it is not of grace at all... that seems to be an accurate summation of what you are saying.

If it is not, please tell me specifically why not.

BTW, this really skirts the issue. Faith and repentance are not "gifts" per se... they are characteristics of the new spiritual nature which is a gift out of God's grace.

[ May 03, 2005, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]

 

The bible says, "By faith we are saved, not of works, lest any man should boast."

Nothing we do, not even repentence, makes us worthy of the Grace of God.

I reached out to Christ in faith, and when I did that, He opened my eyes to my sin, and with love, lead me to repent from them.

I didn't "repent first." I couldn't have. Without Him, I was nothing. I didn't even know I needed to repent until He showed me.

 

Well Salvation is not 'BY' grace, but it is 'OF' grace. All that is required of humanity in order to receive God's free gift of Everlasting life (salvation) is to believe. Hear the word and believe, Hear the word and have faith (same thing)

Believing and FAITH are neither one a work, they are the condition of ones spirit, the result of knowledge gained through hearing!

No! Faith is the result of knowledge, and one can have faith in anything one chooses to believe in. Repentance stems from one's faith. If you do not believe in something, you are not going to repent from something else. You must first believe that what you are doing is wrong for you before you will repent from doing it! You never repent first then get faith as a followon! It simply does not work that way in any of man's endeavors, and it does not work in Christianity!

 

No it's not! What merit is there in believing and saying you do? ... NONE whatever!

If you are given gifts for your birthday, is your receiving of those gifts Meritorious? ...of course I guess that could depend on the gift and the gift giver! One wouldn't want some gifts, or one from certain people.

 

Who do you know that God has specifically Called?

Now, who do you know that God has not called, or will not call? Please name them so that we can inform them they are going to hell!

In otherwords, if you do not know even one person out of the 6 Billion who are currently living, that God is not calling to salvation, YOU must stop saying they exist!

 

Who do you know that God has specifically Called?</font>[/QUOTE] He has specifically called the elect and generally called everyone.

That is not a matter subject to human discernment. Do you think God does not know who will go to hell?

You are a master of drawing conclusions not necessitated by the positions of your opponents. As convenient as it might be for you, this is a case of you applying the fallacy of limited alternatives.

 

No it's not! What merit is there in believing and saying you do? ... NONE whatever! </font>[/QUOTE] But that isn't all that is going on according to you. You have asserted that man must make a "good" choice to have faith. That man hears and decides of his own will whether to believe or not. You have rejected the idea that men believe because God specially opens their understanding through spiritual regeneration.

There is no merit in "believing and saying you do" when that belief is the product of the Spirit's regenerating a spiritually dead person. If each and every person's fate is independently due to a choice made completely of their own natural mind then it is MERIT to make the right decision.

You are trying to avoid the implications of what you have said. Why?

I didn't say that belief was an act of merit. I said that making the good decision to believe was an act of merit. This differentiates our positions. You believe that belief or faith comes from within a person before regeneration. I believe that the only way a person can make this good decision is if God grants him a new nature with which faith/belief are consistent.

Again, we aren't talking about a physical commodity. But I will play along- weakness of the analogy aside.

If someone who you did not previously know sent you a gift through the mail and you knew that a mail bomber had been in operation but also that a millionaire had made the habit of sending people enough money to retire in ease... and you then set out to research the package by every means possible finding some who gave reasons to accept it and others with reasons to reject it--- then your choice to open it and receive the great wealth would be an act of merit. You decided based on your own "good" judgment to open the package.