Anti- drum beat/syncopation

Any sources, my friend? I'd love to see them.
Thanks

 

I've listened to blues, jazz, and rock and roll for most of my life and my heart is fine, while my grandmother who never listened to anything but southern gospel and old school country had a heart tremor.

 

Yeah, and you might be dead of a heart attack next week. C'mon, a source for your scientific disprovings.
I knew a man who died at the age of 94 who had smoked since the age of 16.

 

Doesn't the burden of proof lie on the other end? Wasn't the OP questioning the supposed sinfulness of beats?

Where's the supposed proof?

 

Well, you've managed to document the fact that hymnwriters often borrowed tunes, a fact not in dispute. If that's all you meant by your first post, then I apologize.

But what it looked like you were trying to do was say that hymnwriters commonly imitated the unseemly styles and mannerisms of the world in the music they chose, and that simply isn't true. I say it looked like that's what you tried to do because of your references to Luther and the Wesley's, who are commonly and erroneously reported to have helped themselves to the tunes of tavern songs. And that simply isn't true either.

More than that, you asserted your point in defense of rock music in the church, which, if your purpose wasn't to tout the afore-mentioned oft-repeated urban legend concerning Wesley, Luther and others, your post seems somewhat pointless.

But, judging from the indiscriminate use of the term "popular" in the post I quoted above, I'd say my first impression was correct, and you have yet to document your assertion.

 

Worldbook links the history of rock to "black folk."
http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?content_spotlight/aamusic/aamusic

Is Worldbook lying?

Britannica makes the same link. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9105870/rock-and-roll#667373.hook

Is Britannica lying?

Samuel A. Floyd, Jr. (an African American) in a book I've cited before* makes the same reference. Is Samuel A. Floyd a liar?

*The Power of Black Music

 

So if hymn writers used popular music of their times in making sacred music, why shouldn't worship leaders and hymn writers today use the music of our time?

 

Correct!
To say that the syncopated rhythms did not come from the African culture is to admit that one knows nothing of music history, esp. American music history. A GREAT book on this subject is Richard Crawford's An Introduction to America's Music W.W. Norton & Co. New York 2001 ISBN 0-393-97409. Crawford is not an extreme Fundamentalist White Racist Extremist, yet he traces the syncopated rhythms of the slaves of the South into the minstrel shows of the North, then to Ragtime, and eventually Rock 'n Roll. His last chapter is entitled 'Black Music and American Identity.'
But you don't need to read. Any music student or professor will fill you in on some of the details.

 

If you don't like certain styles of music because you think it is bad for your heart or it has black/African/secular origins, then feel free to avoid it.

The OP's request for scripture defending this position has obviously been ignored so all sides seem to agree that there is no scripture to defend this personal preference.

If you claim this is doctrine and cannot find scripture to defend it, then you probably shouldn't claim to be a sola-scriptura Christian.

 

It's always about race with this guy.

I'm not sure if I'm happy or disappointed that he didn't trot out "Hear That Black Snake Moan" again or that idiotic essay from that woman who's name escapes me.

 

There's no scripture either way.

There's nothing inherently wrong with drums but if somebody has a conviction that they're wrong, they shouldn't listen to them.

Currently, I'm listening to Chip Taylor's album, "Unglorious Hallelujah" and the drummer on that album is carrying several songs with just a plastic bucket and a cardboard box.

 

Well, then all I can say is thank God for the rythmns of the southern slaves music, blues music, and the syncopated rythmns of the minstrel show music, Ragtime, and Rock and Roll music.

It adds so much to good solid christian praise and worship music when it has that wonderful syncopation in the rythmn section, or that good back beat poppin'.

Praise the Lord! \o/

Mike

 

I can definitely agree with that.

What about people clapping their hands with the music? Even when my old church sung hymns (and that was all they sung, and only from the redback), people would clap along with the music if it was an upbeat song (yes, there are some upbeat hymns... honest). If one is going to go out on this limb, surely to goodness this carnal activity must be stopped.

Oh, and toe-tapping! Straight from the brimstone pit itself, it must be...

 

The music itself has little or nothing to do with the higher IQ's.
I'd guess that those that play classical music tend to be more economically and educationally advantaged.

Loud music doesn't negatively impact the heart.

Everyone has extra heart beats once in a while.
For the most part these arrhythmia are benign, not even noticed by you when you have them.

Although anything that would increase adrenaline might cause an increase in heart arrhythmia, be it loud and energetic music, exercise, caffeine intake, fright etc.

Some people live quite normally with every other heart beat being an arrhythmia
I guesss you could say they march to the beat of a different drummer.

Rob

 

While I don't have the science research to make a claim one way or another, neither do I know the source of your information. The classical music and IQ issue would seem to require many years to test, and require accounting for variables like economic and educational benefits. I can only report that these news stories are common and the testing procedures should be open to examination for those so inclined.

I'm uncertain why you would say loud music doesn't negatively impact the heart, unless you do not define heart stoppage or changed rhythm as a negative impact. It would seem to be obvious that low-frequency sound pulses, projected with enough volume, can both stop a heart (much like a baseball if it strikes the chest at the right moment in the heartbeat) and alter the heartbeat's speed and pattern. Heavy metal and rap, especially, are notorious for speeding up heart beats. Whether one wants to use this as ammunition against certain types of music is another issue.

As I said previously, imo the affects of certain chords and chord progressions on our emotions (and, I would argue, spirits) is a more serious issue.

 

Cardiology's my field, been working in it for decades.
Heart stopage, yeah that would be a negative impact...but music doesn't do that... if it did then we'd have many dead musicians.

'Don't exactly know what you mean by changed rhythm... the speeding up or slowing down of a persons heart rate isn't changing the rhythm, it's merely changing the rate of the rhythm.
Things like deep breathing or a hot showers affect that.
[and you're not advocating that we all stop taking showers are you???]

Anyway a changing heart rate is not dangerous or bad.

As for changing rhythm, it's rare but it happens.
I've never heard any reports about it happening in relation to music.
Those that are prone to have it happen generally are unable to identify a precipitating event.

Music will not affect the heart in the same way a baseball hitting the chest would... whether it seems obvious to you or not.
Music, even the loud, obnoxious stuff can't stop (or start) a heart.

Rob

 

These statements are laughable! And from and educated (wo)man! You might claim superior knowledge in the heart department (though I doubt you've ever made or read a study on the impact of music on the heart--I've read dozens), but to write years of research off to better socioeconomic or educational backgrounds is to declare your ignorance. Put down the Johns-Hopkins Medical Journal and pick up a music history book if you want to debate music.

I'm not even weighing in on the propriety of the styles debated, I just can't stand ignorant people speaking what they know not of. :BangHead:

 

To say that something over 100 years ago was popular, does not mean it held top 40 status. With no radio, tapes or CD's, a popular tune was something of a completely different nature than what we refer to as popular music today.

Any of the hymnwriters you mentioned would not use the music that you can hear played on juke boxes in bars or by disc jockeys in clubs. Using sensual music in church is a relatively new development. Can you find any hymns from the turn of the century that borrowed any Ragtime tunes, or gospel songs from the 30's that imitated the styles of Russ Columbo or Rudy Vallee? Any Andrews Sisters' style hymns?

(I'm not talking about secular performers who also sang gospel songs. I'm talking about music that was written for the church.)

It's not that contemporary (in the denotative meaning of the word) tunes can't be used, but you aren't limiting the definition of the term. By contemporary (or music of our time) you are also describing a style which would would have been rejected by the gospel song writers that you cited.

 

Priced a classical CD lately? Or a ticket to a rock concert?

 

We're waiting . . . where?