Anti-intellectualism

[PeterM]

Not sure if this fits in the "box"... but I've got people in the church I serve who have openly said to me that they don't "trust" people who have education (doctors and the like... including in the ministry context). As I explored that with them, I asked them what about their medical doctors. They said they liked their current doctor because he didn't wear a suit or tie. He wore jeans and maybe a nice collared shirt.

What I ultimately discovered was that it wasn't the "education" per se that caused them to mistrust, but the aloof appearance and attitude that they perceived. Having a vocabulary that included words with more than 3 syllables, dressing professionally, along with having a terminal degree all seemed to contribute to their thinking.

I have found this to be common, at least where I am.

 

[Oldtimer]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?

Background: Live in a rural country. Attend a church that's about 5 miles from the nearest small town. About 125 for Sunday worship. Pastime is to comment on how well crops are doing along the route to church.

Based on what I see:

Education and serious reasoning is NOT dismissed. That said, there's much concern over how education is being used today. The molding of society, via the government & special interests to conform to non-biblical viewpoints. God has been kicked out of the classroom in favor of tolerance, diversity, and everyone is a winner, regardless. In this context, sometimes think about who's hand is on the potter's wheel.

Glad you used the qualifier "serious" with reasoning. In both Sunday school and in Bible study sessions, much "serious" reasoning (discussion) of topics takes place. Many times the primary focus of the session is abandoned when something within that focus needs further "reasoning". Can't go directly from point A, through B, to C when B needs deeper study.

I have yet to hear a member of one of these study groups address other members in the same manner, often seen here, during these serious sessions. Same old catch words -- stupid, ignorant, dumb, crazy, liar, etc & etc. Regardless of the venue, addressing others with such terms fosters, IMO, an "Anti-intellectualism" state of mind in the listener, when coupled with another aspect of this topic.

When those speaking pull rank. ie "I'm better educated than you." Comes about in many different ways. Referencing degrees plastered on the wall. Coming across as bragging and boasting superiority instead of being a humble student of His word. Name dropping, whether current associations or historical "scholars" when done to elevate the speaker's status. Especially when "serious" reasoning on a subject is taking place.

I can't speak for anyone else. When this rural layman perceives that's taking place, the red flag of "intellectualism" coupled with "elitism" rears its ugly head. Why, you may ask. The answer is found in Proverbs 2:3-6, for example.

In closing, and in my opinion, for whatever, if anything it may be worth. Much of the basis of this topic would disappear if those giving and receiving "education and serious reasoning" would use both Proverbs 2:3-6 and 2 Tim 2:15 as their foundation.

 

[Luke2427]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

Absolutely.

People in our culture want to feel- not think.

They want experience- not exposition.

Let's be honest about it- many people are dumb and don't care to change.

So they take the easy route around the effort of thinking and claim, "I don't have to study- GOD speaks to me."

Of course he doesn't, but they like to claim he does.

Until people are willing to admit they don't know much- they never will know much.

 

[Luke2427]

YES... it's called fundamentalism

I concur!
_______

 

[go2church]

As I type this, I'm looking over to my bookshelf and trying to reconcile your claim with some of the names of the great thinkers and educators and preachers of Christianity who happened to be fundamentalists.

Maybe it's just because I'm one of those stupid fundamentalsts, but when I look at your claim and then look at the names on those books, something just doesn't add up.

Either these guys are just non-fundamentalists masquerading as fundamentalists, or your claim is nonsense.

Granted, I can see how you might get that impression from the geniuses over at OnlineBaptist, but looking at the fundamentalists I know (including one who taught physics and engineering at one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the world), listen to, and read, I just don't see any truth in your claim.

Who's on the bookshelf? There are many who fundamentalists claim, but who would never self identify as fundamentalist.

 

[Revmitchell]

In your opinion, are there some groups that are more anti-intellectual than others?

No I am not trying to pick out any particular group. That would be nothing but opinion.

 

[Revmitchell]

Fundamentalism need demonizing. Can't think of a group or movement that is more anti intellectual then fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, be it of the Christian, Muslim, Mormon or whatever kind, doesn't want people thinking, they want to tell you what to think. Easy answers, no thinking, everything black and white is where anti intellectualism thrives.

I see some folks cannot behave themselves.

 

[Rippon]

Fundamentalism need demonizing. Can't think of a group or movement that is more anti intellectual then fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, be it of the Christian, Muslim, Mormon or whatever kind, doesn't want people thinking, they want to tell you what to think. Easy answers, no thinking, everything black and white is where anti intellectualism thrives.

Regarding Christian Fundamentalism --it is not one monolithic entity. There are variations. There are indeed numerous Fundamentalists who perfectly fit the anti-intellectual category. But the teachers at Detroit Baptist and Dr.Mark Minnick can certainly not be so characterized,as well as many others in the Fundamentalist camp.

 

[Van]

Insecurity concerning our beliefs breeds fear of those advocating an alternate view. Rather than vilify others as elitists or fundamentalists, or know it all blowhards, we need to study and come to the knowledge of the truth. Most misunderstand the verse that says knowledge puffs up, 1 Corinthians 8:1.

Years ago as a child, I filed into the school auditorium, along with most of the student body, there were perhaps 500 kids sitting before the stage curtain which was drawn. Every once in a while someone hidden behind the curtain would bump the curtain, and we would get ready, certain the show was about to begin. Then a voice, deep and powerful, said, "Are you ready?" A few responded yes, but most sat on their hands. After a pause, the voice repeated the question, "Are you ready?" Now we had the idea and we all screamed yes, and clapped our hands. More silence, Then the deep voice said, "Are you positive?" The audience exploded, yes we are positive. More silence. Then the voice said, "Only fools are positive?"

I was taken aback, I had gone along with the crowd and asserted something I did not understand. I had no idea at that age what positive meant.
1 Corinthians 8:1.

 

[Herald]

It seems to me to be a problem everywhere but especially in rural areas that any serious reasoning or education is dismissed off hand by pastors and church members. It is my view that these people remain isolated and have no interest in education or life beyond their own little world. Education and serious reason gets quickly dismissed by a number of various reasons.

Do you see this in churches today and how do you personally see this expressed?


Note* Do not turn this into a cal- non cal debate or about any specific doctrine.

I definitely see it. I see it in those who hold to a hyper-literalization of scripture. This approach to scripture closes down serious study and attempts to take the Bible at face value. That is an admirable idea, but it inevitably leads to some fanciful interpretations of scripture. For instance, when Jesus refers to Himself as the "bread of life" He is not saying He is actually a loaf of bread. It think this approach may be driven by a fear of not being like Rome.

 

[Yeshua1]

I definitely see it. I see it in those who hold to a hyper-literalization of scripture. This approach to scripture closes down serious study and attempts to take the Bible at face value. That is an admirable idea, but it inevitably leads to some fanciful interpretations of scripture. For instance, when Jesus refers to Himself as the "bread of life" He is not saying He is actually a loaf of bread. It think this approach may be driven by a fear of not being like Rome.

problem also is that i am not aware of a hyper literalist, as have always taken the bible to be seen at its plain and literal meaning intended, but also taking in account the genre, context, grammar, sentence construction etc!

 

[just-want-peace]

Those truly intelligent, as opposed to simply "educated", can see the literalness as well as the deeper truths, being aware that there is no conflict 'tween the two.

 

[Herald]

problem also is that i am not aware of a hyper literalist, as have always taken the bible to be seen at its plain and literal meaning intended, but also taking in account the genre, context, grammar, sentence construction etc!

If true, then than that is not hyper-literalism. I was not accusing a specific person of hyper-literalism, just making the point that it does exist. I see it when people say, "See? It says it right here in the Bible!" without understanding context or the figure of speech employed. Sometimes a word means exactly what it means. Sometimes it is used for effect.

 

[Revmitchell]

If true, then than that is not hyper-literalism. I was not accusing a specific person of hyper-literalism, just making the point that it does exist. I see it when people say, "See? It says it right here in the Bible!" without understanding context or the figure of speech employed. Sometimes a word means exactly what it means. Sometimes it is used for effect.

I agree that is par to of the anti-intellectualism in some churches.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is also an anti-intellectualism that I have seen in some churches that despise their pastor to have any education. It is seen as a threat and prideful.

 

[Herald]

There is also an anti-intellectualism that I have seen in some churches that despise their pastor to have any education. It is seen as a threat and prideful.

I agree. The same people would vote out the Apostle Paul according to their logic.