Any Bible translation to actually say . . . ?

[JonC]

No your not a heretic Jon just a bonehead!... Brother Glen

1 Peter 2: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

You keep disagreeing and I'll keep posting

I agree with those verses...thanks...they support my position

It's a well worn debate.....ever since those pesky Reformers came up with your view

Seriously, though, I do realize Scripture can be used to support either of our positions, and that we can't both be right...but we could both be wrong.

In my view, Christ bore our sins and suffered the wages of sin (but not instead of us), and in Him we die to sin and are made alive.

 

[Van]

So what is your argument against "eternal generation". From what I have seen in regard to the term it is just language that is used to express a concept found in scripture.

Christ/God, was always part of the Trinity. Having read all of the posts I have come to the conclusion that you a fighting over words / how many angels... It really seems like a tempest in a teapot.

The use of words or phrases with vague, ambiguous or multiple meanings is counter to the command of Christ to speak plainly, clearly and boldly.

Eternal Generation is held by some to be God the Son became the Son, and was not always existing as the Son. To generate something is to originate or produce something.

 

[Van]

If God the Son was always, eternally, existing as God the Son, then God the Son was never "generated." Thus the phrase, actually means, eternal non-generation. But the advocates for this ambiguous phrase will not agree with that!!!

 

[Silverhair]

The use of words or phrases with vague, ambiguous or multiple meanings is counter to the command of Christ to speak plainly, clearly and boldly.

Eternal Generation is held by some to be God the Son became the Son, and was not always existing as the Son. To generate something is to originate or produce something.

If you want to use the term "eternal non-generation" then go ahead. The fact you can not understand the concept of "Eternal Generation" in regard to the Trinity of God is something that you will have to deal with.

What you have to realize is that not everyone struggles with that concept as you and few others on this board do.

 

[JonC]

If God the Son was always, eternally, existing as God the Son, then God the Son was never "generated." Thus the phrase, actually means, eternal non-generation. But the advocates for this ambiguous phrase will not agree with that!!!

"Generated" is not the word used. The phrase is "Eternal Generation" which is the opposite of "generated". (NOT "eternally generated" but "eternal generation").

The title, whether you agree with it or not, mean that Jesus is eternally God, co-equal with the Father, NEVER having a beginning.

"Generated" was chosen as a more generic word for "behotten". In the Doctrine of the Trinity they carry the same meaning - "equal to in kind", "of the same essence".

"Eternal non-generation" would mean "eternally of a different essence than the Father, greater or less than God".


Anyway, I agree - as evidenced by this thread - that some (a minority of Christians....again, as evidenced by this thread) will be confused by the term and theological concept.

And to be fair too many churches have pushed seriously learning theogy to the seminary or choosing indoctrination into a sect over Biblical education.

It is not right to hang onto antiquated language simply for traditions sake, or the appearance of elevated ideas when doing so fosters ignorance about the doctrines intended to be communicated.

So I'm all for updating the words if doing so better communicates the doctrine being taught. But don't do away with the older forms. Have a "Theology for Dummies" alongside the Doctrine of the Trinity and include all the debates over how these terms were worked out and developed.


Another issue is "natures". We think of "nature" as attributes or qualities, but in the Doctrine of the Trinity "nature" is closer to "essence".

 

[Van]

Yes, indeed, "generation" has more than one meaning, but one of its meanings is:

2
a : the action or process of producing offspring : procreation
b: the process of coming or bringing into being generation of income
c: origination by a generating process : production especially : formation of a geometric figure by motion of another
​

Eternal non=generation (using definition #2 above) means eternally never generated, always existing as God the Son.

It is not right to hang onto antiquated language simply for traditions sake, or the appearance of elevated ideas when doing so fosters ignorance about the doctrines intended to be communicated.

So I'm all for updating the words if doing so better communicates the doctrine being taught. But don't do away with the older forms. Have a "Theology for Dummies" alongside the Doctrine of the Trinity and include all the debates over how these terms were worked out and developed.​

I agree "Eternal Generation" because it confuses some and has spawned false and unbiblical doctrine inconsistent with John 1:1, is antiquated and should be replaced so no one says God the Father "brought forth" God the Son, and every says God the Father "sent forth" God the Son to be God incarnate.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Any Bible translation to actually say eternal generation?

the teaching of "eternal generation" of the Son from the essence of the Father is what Paul calls, "doctrine of demons", and is the work mainly of the arch early Church heretic, Origen, who taught that both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are CREATED beings and not Almighty God, which is against what the Bible very clearly teaches!

Much of Origens heresies on the Trinity were adopted by Arius!

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Any Bible translation to actually say _TRINITY____ ?

So if the word/s are not in the biblical text then it is a false doctrine?

No to last question, Godhead is in Bible.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Let's say that being part of a 'generation' or being 'begotten' or even 'the first born', each included a time period when they had not yet begun to be 'generated' or 'begotten' or where they experienced a time of 'pre-birth', prior to being 'born', then in the case of Jesus, it would be teaching that He actually wasn't always in the Same Nature and Essence as God the Father, and, therefore, not God.

However, The Bible teaching using that same word 'always', describes Jesus as Eternally Existing AS HAVING ALWAYS BEEN GENERATED.

That is what The Bible teaches about Jesus' Eternal Generation.

You've seen it before.

Obviously, 'Wisdom' is Jesus Christ Whom the Lord possessed in the beginning of His Way, or that would be from Eternity Past;

Proverbs 8:
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Now, if you would, try and absorb there in verse 30,
where the last part says, "I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him".

What does the word 'always' mean to you there?

Does that teach us that Jesus was 'always' Eternally Generated, to 'always' have been possible for Him to, again, 'always' have rejoiced before God the Father?

If so, then there has never been a concept of a time before Jesus began to be Generated or begotten.

Jesus is the Express Image of God the Father, which Image He has 'always' had.

Jesus has Existed as being Generated from God the Father,
as long as their has been Eternity.

Because, Jesus was daily God the Father's delight, from Eternity Past,
since Jesus has been "rejoicing always before Him.

That's it. That's Bible.

Eternal Generation- Jesus is eternally YHWH, co-equal with the Father, no beginning and no end.

The point is that, while there is a point in time that the Word became flesh, the Word existed eternally with and as God.