Any full preterists?

I don't understand that either about full preterism. If this is it I have no hope, because there is none. Satan won.
Gina

 

Rider or eschatologist;

Let me restate my question; I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I have read some full preterist positions and am curious:

Is all prophecy fullfilled or only the book of Revelation? And is the book of Rev. all or partly fullfilled?

Is your primary viewpoint that scripture is allegorical?

Has the resurrection occured?

I had read that their understanding is that it had and the lack of writings from 70 AD to circa 135 AD (thereabouts) was evidence for this. Kind of an "argument from silence".

Thanks,
Cotton

 

It's been 2 thousahnd years now, we are completely out of the time schedule. Who are we and why are we here would be the question.

 

donnA,

'I think you said, 'It's been 2 thousahnd years now, we are completely out of the time
schedule.'

Ray is saying, 'We are right on schedule. The N.T. says to the effect, that with God, a day is like thousand years to Him. [II Peter 3:8] MAYBE in His way of thinking He has only been away from the earth about two days. {two thousand years}

We all wonder when will be the time of His coming. This is natural because we know Him and are looking for His appearing. [I John 2:28 & 3:2-3]

You said, 'Who are we . . . '

Ray is saying, 'By His mercy we have become the sons and daughters of the living God.
When we have faith in Jesus and because of Who He Is, He has given to us everlasting life. [John 3:16] It is difficult to try to comprehend this but it is the truth. Plus, God speaking through the Apostle John has said, 'Beloved, NOW are we the sons of God, (& daughters) and it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.' {notice John did not say 'was;' He is the eternal One}

You said, ' . . . why are we here would be the question.'

Ray is saying, 'There are a lot of reasons as to why we are here. Sometimes I ask myself this question also. One reason we are here is to glorify God by our Christian living. The more like we become like Jesus, the better. [Romans 8:29] He wants us to be conformed to His likeness; this is our goal in this life.

Jesus said that Christians are a light in this world. [John 5:14] In the spiritual darkness of this present world each of us has an impact on the lives of other people. Either because of our humanity and/or the Evil one, the Devil would like to make us think that we are of little to no value to the church/His Kingdom.

We are not lights because of anything that we have done, but because Jesus is the Light of the world. [John 1:9 & 8:12]

Jesus said, 'I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.'

My feeling and belief is that because Jesus has touched our lives, Christians are His lights in the sinfulness of this world that we live in today. Donna, you do make a difference!

 

Ray Berrian

All due respect sir, are you trying to say that someone has to wait on the two witnesses, Elijah and Enoch, "who will preach about how to be saved?" How about the Bible, the Word of God?! Doesn't that teach us about salvation? Where in scripture did you invent this from?

Also Jesus did not ascend "2004" years ago! According to most experts He was born around 4 to 3BC and died at around the age of 33 years old. That would put His death around 27AD, so technically He ascended not "2004" years ago but about 1974 years ago.

You are also mistaken in your assumption that it is factual that the book of Revelation was written around 95AD. This is another example of the herd following the 'Bell Cow.' This is actually a more modern idea that you might think. All, and I mean ALL the evidence for this theory can be traced back to ONE person, and his name is Irenaeus. And this was in fact hear-say. Ireneaus was quoting Polycarp who had asked John a question concerning the Apocalypse. The problem lies in the statement "was seen." Was it John or the Apocalypse that was seen toward the end of Domitian's reign? Logically reading this statement, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, would make far more sense that he was refering to John, because John was the main subject of his paragraph. But still this is THE SEED in which this whole 95AD theory was propagated from. Every one else holding this idea has placed their belief totally on Ireneaus who also wrote that Jesus was in His fifties when He died. Now Irenaeus did write many very reliable things, but he also missed on quite a few. Yet if you would spend the time and search many of the early writers you will find that many of them believed Revelation was written in the time of Nero, probably more that those who believed Irenaeus' statement. These writers are but a few of the evidences from external sources, but there is also several internal sources from within the book of Revelation itself. If you would like I will show you these. But what I am saying here is you are like many who make such bold statements concerning Revelation's date of writing, yet fail to do the research into this matter that's really needed. So I could reverse your brash statement back on you: "Your explaination about Revelation is so flimsy that I hardly want to argue the point." Yet unlike you I will at least present the evidence of the arguement at hand!

Another point you fail to see. You quoted:

"What would be the point of measuring
the Temple after it was already built
and enjoyed? There would be no point
to it."

Well, my friend, John has told you, yet you were not listening. He said it was for preservation, and the unmeasured portion was not measured because it was given over to destruction. That was plain and simple. And although this measuring is in itself symbolic, it was in regards to actual events to which he was already told was "soon" and "near." Second, it would not make much sense, even symbolically, to measure the Temple which was already literally destroyed by the Romans!

In order to keep this post brief, I will further reply to any posts or responses concerning the 'Preterist' view of eschatology, if anyone is interested. I have studied eschatology for quite some time and have not focused my attention to this one view. I believe one must look into all the various views before you can eliminate anyone of them.

 

It has been said, 'All due respect sir, are you trying to say that someone has to wait on the
two witnesses, Elijah and Enoch, "who will preach about how to be saved?"
How about the Bible, the Word of God?!

Ray is saying, 'These two men will be God's witnesses through preaching. You do believe in preaching don't you? Reference: Revelation 11:4-11.

You said, 'Doesn't that teach us about salvation?' Yes, the N.T. teaches us about salvation by faith, but preachers preach so people can hear and respond. [Romans 10:13-15] There is your Word of God.'

You said, 'Where in scripture did you invent this from?'

As noted above Elijah and Enoch are the two men who never died and this is a must according to the Word of God. They will return during the Great Tribulation and after their messages are completed, the sinners will take their lives. Read: Revelation 11:4-11.

If you never heard of this in Premillennialism, you have not studied the various views as thoroughly as you suggest to us.

No sarcasim intended.

 

Eschatologist says that is not according to the word of God. That is according to your word. Nowhere is it stated that a final coming of the Lord is preceeded by a coming of Moses and Elijah! Only if some theology of man takes Revelation and tries to stretch, bend and redefine what the Lord has said. Try Again!!!

 

Ray, what I'm saying is that, if Jesus came back for His people in 70ad, then we missed it, born too late. People have been saved, Jesus came and got them, it's all over with. Even the 1000 years reign is over since it's been 2000 years. OK where does that put us. Biblically none of this makes any sense.

 

DonnA,

I understand you completely. You are right. Do we now die like a dog and God forgets to raise us ever from the dead? Let's look for some more man made theology to surface.

 

God has said that ' . . . it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.'
[Hebrews 9:27]

If Enoch and Elijah do not have to go through physical death, then God was not quite correct when He made the above statement. The term 'men' refers to male and female gender, but even if you thought it was only meaning men, then Enoch and Elijah still have to go through the experience of human death.

The Lord did miraculous things in the Garden, under the ministrations of Abraham and Moses, and while He was on the earth. He is still doing His work and ministry of grace today. This duly noted miracle which the Lord terms, 'My two witnesses' preach for 3 ½ years during the Great Tribulation. God also calls these men 'the two olive trees' and 'the two candlesticks' who stand before the God of the earth.' For awhile they will be protected but in verse nine of Revelation eleven, we see their death. There lives will be taken by sinful men who will despise the message that the Lord is going to put in their hearts and mouths. After 3 ½ days they will come to life again [vs. 11] and they will ascend into Heaven. [vs. 12] And notice the words, ' . . . and their enemies beheld them.' These men and women, of course, will be sinners and those who are going to hate to hear Enoch and Elijah's message of repentance of these people and of the soon coming of Jesus at His Second Coming to the earth, and of the strict judgment that will fall on all who refuse to receive the Lord of glory. Verse eight marks out the city of this place of Divine prophetic utterances.

The Bible says, that the Scripture cannot be broken; [John 10:35] either all human beings have to die or Enoch and Elijah got off the hook all together and the Lord has not told us the truth. This is how we know that these two men will be the 'two witnesses'. And what better men to preach this message than two Israelites to the people of Israel. Elijah was highly received under the O.T. and Enoch's message in Jude verse 14 is about what event? That's right it is going to be about the Lord's coming at His Second Coming with 'ten thousands of His saints.' So after the 'two witnesses' ascend into Heaven at the close of the Great Tribulation, the Lord Himself will come as noted in Jude verse fourteen.

I believe as do millions of people that the Lord could come at any time in the Rapture of the church to Heaven, then the Great Tribulation and all the Seal, Trumpet and Vial judgments, then the Second Coming of Christ to the earth. There are other things that will happen which are found in Revelation with the concluding of all human history with the Great White Throne Judgment, plus the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven, plus the 'new Heaven and the new earth.'

The Lord is right on schedule. Keep close to Him and keep looking for His glorious coming.

 

Nope.

Historicist all the way! (But some of our RC bretheren have come pretty close to preterists)

In Christ,

Bob

 

Donna,
It makes no sence, because its bibcally wrong. Thats why we have bible prophecies, so we won't be decived by false teachers/prophets. How about this prophecy that states that the gospel would be published to all nations in Mark 13:10.

(But according to Mark we're getting pretty close to being outta here. ) Mark 13:10 has not came to pass yet. Theres more if you want to read it all its Mark 13:1-27. and pay attention to verse 22 for sure.

Music4Him

 

The 13th chapter of Mark is fulfilled. Mark 13:30 explicitly says:

Truly, I say to you, this generation will
not pass away until ALL these things take
place.(emphasis mine,ESV)

Now if Mark 13:10 is yet fulfilled, then how reliable are the words of our Lord?

 

In order to keep this post brief, I will further reply to any posts or responses concerning the 'Preterist' view of eschatology, if anyone is interested. I have studied eschatology for quite some time and have not focused my attention to this one view. I believe one must look into all the various views before you can eliminate anyone of them. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Okay, I posted a couple of times but didn't get an answer;

as a preterist, do you believe all scripture is fullfilled?

did the resurrection occur?

is scripture primarily allegorical?

Cotton

 

Cotten in answer to your question......if they belive that the scripture in Mark 13 has already came to pass then "Yes" to all three of your questions. Well it should give you just the tip of the iceberg anyways. So we are here < v ^ > you pick which arrow......

Here in Texas they have a simular game its called snipe hunting. You take a unsuspecting victim out in a pasture give them a bag and tell that snipes will run into a bag if you call them.......meanwhile you get left by yourself out in the middle of no where holding the bag in the dark. Any parallels to the above belief might be a coincedence?

Music4Him

 

M4Him;
I agree that preterism has dead end consequences for scripture: however, we do have to explain what Mark 13:30 explains, no?

Is this scripture the pivotal point of preterism? In other words, is it a foundationlal or 'proof' text of what preterists believe?

How do we interpret then it if not as eschatologist says?

Of course the counter argument is true; if Mark 13:10 IS fullfilled, then how reliable are the words of our Lord?

Cotton

 

Mark 13:1-32 covers a lengthy period of time. It is true that verse two is speaking about the future destruction of the Temple.

Verse ten could not have spoken to their times because we are still preaching the Gospel to the ends of the world.

Verse fourteen in this passage is speaking of the Israelites fleeing to the mountains. In verse nineteen Jesus is speaking not of 'these days' but a future time called, 'those days.' Verse twenty, referring to the future Great Tribulation, Jesus says that He will shorten those days, lest many more be killed by the hand of the antichrist.

Vs. 24-In those days after that Tribulation, {also notice Matt. 24:21-22} the same situation is being discussed by Jesus. At the close of the Great Tribulation and just before the Second Coming of Christ to this earth, 'the sun will be darkened . . . (through
verse 27.

The sun was not darkened nor did the sun refuse to reflect its light against the moon, and neither did the stars fall from Heaven on the day of the Destruction of theTemple/70 A.D., or any time surrounding this awful tragedy among the Jewish people. And notice Josephus {sp.} nor any other writer of history wrote about the sun, moon, and stars behaving very unusual.

Many commentators on this passage in verse 28 suggest that the 'parable of the fig tree' refers to the budding of the nation of Israel in 1948. At any rate, we are much closer to the Rapture of the church than in Biblical times. Only the Godhead knows the time of Jesus return, not even His privileged angels. [vs. 32]

This view makes the Preterists view totally 'off the wall.' and notice how none of them explain what is the next step in their theory of end times events, as to our lives.

When studying prophecy you have to keep in mind that Mark 13 moves from talking about the destruction of the Temple--70 A.D., to another subject like the events leading toward the end of the world. Just like when you read in Isaiah 9 it is not just about the birth of Jesus, but moves to present events during Isaiah's ministry.

Another example is found in Micah 5. In verse two the prophet speaks of Jesus one day becoming the Ruler in Israel, and then moves on to present day events during Michah's ministry among the Jewish people. A good theologian knows the difference.

 

Tell me where it is written in todays history books that all mentioned in Mark 13 has happened? Cause such things mentioned in Mark chapter 13 would surly had been recorded.
Yes the word says generation......this word in the the strongs bible dictionary is defined: age, dwelling, nativity(lineage, origin or native country), offspring, kin.
Now could Jesus mean that this "church age" will not pass till all these things be done?

Jesus tells us to learn the parable of the fig tree.
Luke 21:29-33
And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

FP's need to look at all the OT & NT bible prophecy and prove that all has been fulfilled first.

 

Sorry I meant Mk 13:30, not 13:10;

Is this the sole text for FP's? What else supports FP?

Cotton

 

Sorry I meant Mk 13:30, not 13:10;

Is this the sole text for FP's? What else supports FP?

Cotton
--------------------------------------------------
Cotton,
I tell you honestly I wished I knew the sole text of the FP's beliefs myself. You'd think they would have posted a website to exsplain it better?

But, rest assured I ain't jumping in no snipe huntin' bag!