Any Here exposed to the Apostolic reformation movement?

[JonShaff]

I read my Bible. I know you have no documentation that Jesus directly commissioned others outside of the Bible as Apostles. God has given evangelists who spread out across the world. This is biblical. No bias involved.

The Bible is clear about the gifts and calling of an apostle. You are ripping pages of Scripture out. Once again, the onus is on you to prove that they have stopped.

 

[Particular]

The Bible is clear about the gifts and calling of an apostle. You are ripping pages of Scripture out. Once again, the onus is on you to prove that they have stopped.

Not at all.
However, I note that you are making a distinction between a little a, apostle and a big A, Apostle. I can live with a generic, little a, apostle that merely fits the general greek meaning.

John Piper states:

The word “apostle” means “one who is sent.” So the word can have a very general meaning of some persons sent by others on a special mission (e.g. 2 Corinthians 8:23; Philippians 2:25). In that case no special religious authority is implied because the sender is not an authority and does not intend to invest the “apostles” with authority they don’t possess.

In determining what authority an “apostle” has, we should ask: What authority does the sender have who sent the apostle as his authorized spokesman? And: How much of that authority did the sender give to his representative?

In a sense all missionaries, truly called by God, are sent by Christ as his representatives and should be able to say, “We are ambassadors for Christ, God making His appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:20). In order to be an authentic missionary one needs to be “sent.” “How shall they preach unless they be sent?” (Romans 10:15)

So these missionaries are authorized by the risen Christ, but we would not say that Jesus imparts to them the degree of authority that he gave to the original apostles whose teaching now stands in the New Testament. Their authority must constantly defer to the New Testament and prove itself by conformity to what the original spokesman of the Lord taught.

We would probably do well to avoid using the term today for missionaries and church planters, because using it may well create a confusion that could serve to lessen the unique authority of original apostolic teaching.

Less than apostolic,

Pastor John

 

[JonShaff]

Not at all.
However, I note that you are making a distinction between a little a, apostle and a big A, Apostle. I can live with a generic, little a, apostle that merely fits the general greek meaning.

John Piper states:

I’m thankful we have some agreement . God bless you and may He cause His grace to multiply to you!

 

[HankD]

RE: The word "Missionary" is not found in the bible - there are many theological words not found in the bible.

The one of the most renown is "Trinity". yet we are Trinitarian Christians because the concept of three distinct persons in one divine essence can be proven through a scriptural apologetic.

 

[JonShaff]

RE: The word "Missionary" is not found in the bible - there are many theological words not found in the bible.

The one of the most renown is "Trinity". yet we are Trinitarian Christians because the concept of three distinct persons in one divine essence can be proven through a scriptural apologetic.

Missio is the Latin connection to apostolos.

 

[HankD]

Missio is the Latin connection to apostolos.

uh the NT was WRITTEN in GREEK with the challenge to find it in the English bible not the Vulgate.

 

[JonShaff]

uh the NT was WRITTEN in GREEK with the challenge to find it in the English bible not the Vulgate.

It was an FYI.

 

[HankD]

It was an FYI.

OH OK Thanks for the info

 

[JonShaff]

OH OK Thanks for the info

No problemo.

interesting subject for sure!

 

[Yeshua1]

John died before Jesus did, before 20AD?

I can assure you that you do not know, based on that guess.

John has been physical dead LONG time!

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ gave Gifts Ephesians 4:11-16 to bring the church into the fullness of Christ. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers will continue equipping God’s people until His return. The onus is on you my friend to prove otherwise.

No Apostles in the sense of the Apostles of Jesus and paul today!

 

[Yeshua1]

That still doesn't answer my question. How is Paul using the word apostolos in that verse? I provided a link to the use of the word in the Bible and in ancient Greek culture. Like baptizo, apostolos is a common word and carries various meanings. The onus is on you, my friend, in showing the use and meaning of Apostle today. I wait on your detailed explanation.

I have no problem with those who see modern day Apostles as Missionaries, those sent by Lord Jesus and commissioned to set up local churches and leadership, but none in the sense as used for jesus band of merry men and Paul!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, they were commissioned by the risen Lord. Their ministries are proof of it. The fruit of their ministries express that they were apostles. Apostles are sent ones with a message. They are envoys. They go where there is no gospel access and they lay a foundation of Christ where He is yet to be named. We call them missionaries. missio—sent or to send. Missio Dei—the sending nature of God. Church planters, missionaries and apostles—they have a vision for the Kingdom of God expanding through Gospel outreach where there is none. Apostles have to still be around because there are people and geographical locations that have no church and no gospel access.

now, the onus is on you my friend. Pastors don’t go into places and start churches. They are the byproduct of an apostle starting a church and training up leadership. You may need to start changing your paradigm.

Do you see modern day Apostles as having additional revelations from God apart from the scriptures, and whose writings and pronouncements are inspired?

 

[Yeshua1]

Not at all.
However, I note that you are making a distinction between a little a, apostle and a big A, Apostle. I can live with a generic, little a, apostle that merely fits the general greek meaning.

John Piper states:

The big problem is those in the Modern Apostolic Movement see themselves as being apostles with "Big A"

 

[JonShaff]

Do you see modern day Apostles as having additional revelations from God apart from the scriptures, and whose writings and pronouncements are inspired?

No, Scriptures are complete.

 

[Yeshua1]

Look what JD Greear (current SBC President!) declared:

Summit Life with J.D. Greear • Are There Modern Day Prophets in the Church?

Greear: "I am very grateful for the prophets God has raised up"

Greear: "my friend David Platt....another example: Mark Dever"

Greear: "God is using them to speak to us. We must heed the message being given and ask God what we need to do with the truths they embody"

There are no modern day prophets operating among us the OT ones did!

 

[HankD]

John has been physical dead LONG time!

can you prove that

 

[Yeshua1]

can you prove that

John himself stated that there was a rumour going about even back then that Jesus would keep Him alive until second coming, but John said Jesus only said to peter"whats it to you if i did do that"

 

[HankD]

John himself stated that there was a rumour going about even back then that Jesus would keep Him alive until second coming, but John said Jesus only said to peter"whats it to you if i did do that"

so its not certain

 

[Particular]

can you prove that

Can you prove John is walking among us as a 2000 year old man?