Any Legalist out there??

Hmmmmm. What sayeth the scriptures?

Is it your contention that we should not look to the scriptures but to some man's fallible translation of the scriptures? And if so, which translation would you consider to be correct, and why do you consider it to be so?

 

A translation of scripture is still scripture.

I don't limit myself to any single translation.

What does any of this have to do with the discussion?

 

I believe I understand the Judiastic legalism concept, but not sure about Pharisaical legalism. Could you give me an example? Thanks.

 

Posted for the "edifying of the saints..."

The believer is instructed to "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world." We Christians are not to tamper with, listen to, go along with, or get into the sins of the world. The child of God is to "abstain from all appearanse of evil." You are to "come out from among them and be ye separate." This must carry overinto every phase of our living. There are many good recreations for the Christian; but these must be kept under WISE and careful control. Beware of giving in to any temptation, partaking of any pleasure, or going anywhere that would not FULLY please God. Have you ever done something that MIGHT be considered wrong? Then you compromised. Thousands of believers are of little testimony value for God because they do not stand true and unspotted in this world. Life contains the black of evil and the light of truth, but beware of the dirty grey of the in-between shades of life.

God clearly commands every believer to stay out of the shadows of compromise when He says, "remove thy foot from evil." (Prov. 4:27) Never let the call of what you want to do, or listen to or wear put you in a place where you cannot brightly shine for His glory!

 

In terms of godliness or worldiness having purple hair, body peircings or tattos really isn't an issue biblically but a personal conviction only. In the means of letting your body hang out all over the place I would agree there is a modesty issue which faces us. I was however speaking in the terms of people looking as they wish to look without being immodest or revealing. This freedom can mean anything from hair color, body peircings, colored contacts as well as makeup, although wearing overly heavy makeup is just downright ugly in my opinion there really isn't anything wrong with it either.

karen

 

I am by no means a person who believes in things that are not scriptural but man made. I spent 15 years in a Holiness Church so I know exactly what true legalism is.

There are those who take scriptures such as the one in Dueteronomy which states a woman should not wear mens apparel and a man should not wear womens apparel and teach it is sin for women to wear pants. Yet they never stop and study the history of clothing to understand that pants were in originality created for women first not men.
Later down through the ages men began wearing pants more than women so after years it was just assumed pants were created for men. Men wore tunics and short skirts and robes for years.
This is what legalism does. It takes scriptures and twists it to fit a man made doctrine.

Another example is where they take what Paul and Peter said about jewelry and teach it is sin to wear jewelry but choose to ignore Ezekiel 16 where God himself talks about decking Israel in Jewelry.

We cannot always go by when people talk about personal convictions because the flesh wants to live in sin so a person may never have personal convictions about anything.

The Bible does tell us that we are not to be part of the world in dress, speech and attitude yet when you look at local churches you cannot tell who is a Christian and who is a sinner.
I know there is those who will take exception with what I said but the world does not want us to emulate them.

God forbade the Israelites from tatooing and piercing their bodies. The reason was that the pagan nations did these things as part of worship to demons and false Gods. . Today society does the same thing yet many Christians think it is ok. Same thing about the colored hair like Pink, purple etc. This is done by punkers who are into deep sin or perversion, etc. People will justify by saying that they are not committing those sins but again the world doesn't know that. Why would anyone want to dress like or act like the world.

We are to be the light to the world and how can we shine if we do the same weird things the world does. This is the old excuse people use to live in sin.

 

Did you read the Greek scriptures I posted? And do you deny those words are the words God inspired? If you believe those words, how can you say my position is not scriptural?

You said

I posted the scriptural phrase including the word καταστολε. It seems to me that the bible is making a positive statement concerning what constitutes modest dress for a Christian lady. Do you disagree with God's description of what He believe modest dress should consist of?

 

A Judiastic legalist believes your good works can save you rather than believing your good works are a result of your salvation by grace through faith. A Pharisaical legalist believes your good works can make you spiritual rather than believing your good works are the result of your being made spiritual by grace through faith.

Legalism in any form is a denial of grace and a reliance on the works of the flesh.

 

Brother Cassidy,

The points that I am being called a "legalist" on are the very same points that are listed in your doctrinal statement under the heading, "Separation."

I read your entire statement and agree with it 100%.

All I am trying to get across is that we should be separated from what the world sees as normal in actions, dress, amusement, entertainment and overall lifestyle. And I believe that you hold to these same truths as indicated by your doctrinal statement. If that is the case, praise the Lord.

 

What are you talking about? I don't even know what your position is. And I still fail to see what posting the Greek has to do with the discussion.

For the umpteenth time on this thread, NO. I am simply saying that "women should dress modestly" is scriptural, "women cannot wear pants to church, but must wear a dress instead" is legalism.

 

If that's all you're trying to get across, then I agree! Where the issue lies however, is when *you* take it upon yourself to define for others the details of how that is accomplished.

 

I understand your position. What I am trying to get across is that "following the rules" is not the path to true spirituality. Submitting ourselves to the Lord, and dying to self is the path to true spiritual maturity. Just keeping the rules is what Christ called "whitewashed sepulcurs." Anybody can keep the rules for any number of reasons, but those who love and submit themselves to the Lord will, by grace, be spiritual, and the following of the rules will be a result of their spiritual growth and not the cause of it.

You can take a bum off the street, clean him up, get him a good haircut, and dress him in an Armani suit, and you will still have a bum, a well dressed bum, but a bum nevertheless! But, get him saved, in love with the Lord, submitted to Him, and dead to self, and he will clean himself up, get a haircut, and dress appropiately.

Sometimes, in our zeal, we get the cart (standards) before the horse (spiritual growth).

 

So, you are saying that God erred by using the word καταστολε to describe what, in His opinion, is modest?

 

So, you are saying that God erred by using the word καταστολε to describe what, in His opinion, is modest?</font>[/QUOTE]Thomas, either there is a misunderstanding going on between us, or you're intentionally trolling me.

Let me see if I can clear this up: NO NO NO NO NO. If you need some more clarification, NO. One more time: NO.

Do you (of all people) not understand the difference between "translation", "interpretation" and "application"?

 

No the cart is just where it should be... This is a "Baptist" board, most of the posters, especially the ones on this topic we can assume are already saved... so I am suggesting that a little spiritual maturity is called for. If these folks are genuinely God fearing, washed in the blood, Christ honoring people, then what is the harm in saying, ok God, whatever you want, however you want it, and if me doing thus or so is going to hurt my testimony for you I will cease to do it.

I agree that these things won't save you or may not even make you more holy, BUT, they will certainly show the world whose side you are on!

 

Again, that is not the issue here.

 

Brian,

You skipped my last paragraph! So, what say you?

 

Counselor, you've skipped most of my posts. What do I say? I say: how does turning people off because of legalism help bring them to Christ?

 

Well, you certainly know how to side-step. You still won't address my question.

And again, I am assuming that you do not need brought to Christ, you are already saved and wanting to grow!

So, again I will say... "None of this will save you and it might not make you more holy, BUT, it will sure let folks know whose side you are on."

If it looks, sounds, acts like a duck, it must be a duck. So it is with the world!!