Any Legalist out there??

It is interesting that people get on a hobby horse about legalism but have never really been under true legalism. I have had that bad experience.

The thing that bothers me though about something that is being said is that I keep hearing that it is ok to teach allowing everyone to listen to the Holy spirit for guidance. Sorry, but not too many Christians really know how to listen to the Holy Spirit. This is why the Bible tells us there is a 5 fold ministry.

We look around and see all kinds of excesses in Christianity all being done under the guise of the Holy spirit's leadership. This is why the Charismatic movement is beyond wild. (BARKING LIKE DOGS AND CALLING IT OF THE SPIRIT, ETC)

I firmly believe in pastoral authority. That the pastor should teach Christian ethics and morals as outlined in the New Testament.

At the church I attend they allow women to listen to the spirit and here is how they come to church for activities on Sunday night. Wearing short shorts. THis is what allowing women to follow what they say is the spirit's leadership gets you.

A lot of those women allow their daughters to dress so immodest it is embarrassing. They come to church with such short dresses on it makes me wonder if they are expecting a flood because they have their high water dresses on. They themselves and their daughters wear bikinis or thongs on public beaches etc. You cannot convince me God allows such behaviour. This is what allowing people to have their own leadership does. People are carnal by nature.

 

Have you ever tried praising God that the Spirit led these women to come to church on Sunday night in the first place, instead of them whooping it up in some pub somewhere?

 

Someone stated, no several have stated that it is what is on the inside that counts, that God only looks on the heart.

This is very true but when the world looks on you does it reflect what is on the inside? Does a mini skirt, bikini and tight fitting pants reflect holiness to the lost crowd? Can a woman who is flaunting her body be an effective witness for Christ or a stumbling block causing even Christian men to have bad thoughts.

Shame on you loose living women who wear clothes today even respectable lost women wouldn't wear even 30 years ago. Then you tell me you are living for the Lord but dress like a harlot?

Man, go figure where did that philosophy come from?

Ernie

 

Mr. Cassidy,
Are you the Pastor of a Baptist church? I ask because in where I live this is taught by no one, Baptist or not.

Ernie,
I must be getting old. I saw a young girl of ten get off the school bus today. She was wearing a tank top and some very short shorts. I attended public school in the 70's. And I looked at this girl and remembered that we were not even allowed to wear shorts to school at all. We had to have pants on or skirts and dresses that were at least knee length. It seems so far off that even public schools had standards at one time.

HCL

 

I graduated from high school in 1957, in California. We had to wear slacks and a collared shirt in High School and the girls were required to wear skirts and blouses or dresses. Mind you this was a PUBLIC high school!!!!

Many of the roller Skating rinks wouldn't allow you in, if you were wearing blue jeans i.e., Levis, Lee Riders, etc.

I drove 15 miles to a rink and was denied entrance because I was wearing Lee Riders, new ones at that! Now church members feel abused if they are asked to honor the Lord with their attire....GO FIGURE!!!!

Oh! gym classes weren't co-ed either. Just think PUBLIC SCHOOLS used to have higher standards tan todays churches...

Hmmmm, s'pose schools used to be legalists??????

Ernie

[ May 17, 2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]

 

I pastor an Unaffiliated Baptist Church in San Diego.

 

Ahhh change is good....change is very good. I'm glad things have changed, keep in mind that way back when we also didn't permit black folks to vote or have the same rights as white people did.

I'm not saying immodesty should be fine and dandy...but for real, you can't judge ones testimony on dress. I know from what I have heard people say that wearing a long dress doesn't make you look christian...it makes you look baptist.

karen

 

Oh, you mean it makes you look like a Bible-believer.

[ May 18, 2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Yes, change is very good (tongue in cheek)

Because Baptist Churches have stopped preaching standards and holy living we now have legalized abortion, drugs in schools, unwed teenage mothers, single parent homes, etc.

Yes, change is good, when lost people used to have higher standards then most church members today.

Yes, change is good, when lost women wouldn't dream of going out in public in their underwear (some clothing so-called saved women wear today is as revealing as underwear)!

Yes, change is good, good for who?

Not for the lost because they have a hard time distinguishing between the saint and the sinner!

Not for todays churches, as they have lost the power of God to win the lost and are filled with people who are deceived thinking they are going to heaven when they are still lost.

Ernie

 

Ernie,
Yes that is the big problem the saved are not much different from the world. I think this leaves the lost confused about us.
As I said earlier, when I dressed like the world I was well accepted in most "Christian" circles. But, when I began to dress in modest apparel I was then labeled a legalist. So, it seems if you dress as the world you are ok. But, if you dare to cover your body and be a discreet woman you are then legalist. So, I expect many in my area will continue to label me as a legalist.

HCL

[ May 18, 2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]

 

i have repeatedly heard visitors who are unsaved comment on the appearance of women dressed as I described earlier. THey are totally shocked.
They cannot believe women would dress this way.
I cannot believe people defend this in the least bit and call themselves Christian and use grace to excuse this kind of behavior.

We wonder why so many men fall into adultery and our divorce rate in churches are higher than the worlds. We wonder why the percentage of young girls in the church who are unwed mothers is so high. We wonder why families are being torn apart and pastors are wearing out from having to counsel so much moral failure that they get discouraged and depressed?

I went to a band banquet last night and saw a freshman girl with a new baby and her dress was so short I did not wonder why and her parents claim to be Christian. This was her third pregnancy. She lost the other two.

Jesus' death did not give us freedom to ignore the rules and regulations of the New Testament.
When both Peter and Paul wrote women should dress modestly that is exactly what they meant. Peter said Christian women are to emulate women like Sarah.

Saying I should praise God that these women was even in Church was the most ludicrous thing I have heard. You need to read the latest surveys taken by some Christian organizations. They were
given to unbelievers. OUt of the top ten reasons why people don't want to come to church is that unbelievers think the church is now no different from the world. The church sets no examples to unbelievers. Why should they come to church if they can live like the world anyway.

 

That is perhaps the saddest thing I've ever read in this forum.

I apologize to you for all the people that are not good enough for you, but for some reason came to church anyways. How dare they! Samaritan dogs! Please tell me their names, and I will contact them and tell them not to come to church any more, so as not to offend thy most holy piety. We all know that church is no place for sinners to come.

 

Mr. Cassidy,
Have you ever considered giving an exegetical study of the headship veiling here at BB? I am sure there would not be too many interested but I would be.

HCL

 

We welcome everyone to visit our church, but church members are supposed to be readily identifiable by the lost as they are different in appearance.

How shocking would it be for a lost person seeking the Lord's presence to be greeted by a mini skirted, scoop neck line hussy, welcoming them to church?

This is the very reason I didn't get saved until I was 25 years old. The people in the churches I attended were no different than I , they had nothing to offer.

Then I wandered into a small IFB church where there were standards, the people were different than the carousers, and drunks I was hanging with. They had something that appealed to my soul, not my flesh. No they weren't wierd, they were real, with a love for the Lord in their hearts. I grieve for those of you here who have never experienced this, as it sounds as if the churches you attend were the same kind that tried to send me to hell.

It takes a pure heart to have power with God, and by pure I don't mean sinless, but surrendered, constantly examining themselves in the light of God's Word...and excuse me if you plant yourself in front of the TV, instead of reading the Bible, praying and studying so that God can speak to your heart, you will not experience the power of God on your life.

Salvation isn't a life boat, but a changed life.

Yes, praise God that these people attend a church, but what in the world are they wasting their time for? If they don't respond and have changed lives what is the point?

Where is the evidence of salvation? What hppened to life changeing conversions? Did Paul continue to persecute the church? Did he go back to his old religious buddies? No! Paul died to the old Paul, when are you going to die to self and live for Christ?

If living for Christ, mourning over my old sinful nature that is still with me, and like Paul have to beat my body into subjection to the spirit, long to be free from the temptations of this filthy world; if this makes me a legalist, well so be it, I wear the title proudly, for it is not I that desires to be pure before a Holy and just God but the spirit of God that dwells in me.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefor, If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

Actually Ernie, it doesn't take a strict appearance to have a sweet spirit in a church. I guess one of my questions is this...we go from one extreme to the next, either long dresses and high necklines or mini skirts and low necklines to a point of nothing being hidden. What about regular nice clothes ...the "in betweener clothes" if you will.

karen

 

We are in a church society where people do not think it is wrong for the people in the church to dress like the world even though we have been told to come out from the world and be separate.

I believe the Bible is moderate in its teachings but again there are rules and regulations in the New Testament that we are told we must obey.

It does not matter whether or not people holler legalism or not. That does not change the fact that Jesus said if we love him we will keep his commandments and John wrote the same thing.

Men are attracted by sight. They lust because of sight. When women who claim to be Christian come dressed in such an immodest fashion they are causing men to lust. They are encouraging sin.
This should not be allowed.

I have heard so called Christian men brag about their wives bodies. They think it is wonderful that their wives can wear short shorts or mini skirts and make men's heads turn. I am sorry but I don't understand why any man would want other men to leer at their wives and Christian men of all people.

There are single young ladies in the youth group
who dress so immodestly visiting young men who are not saved have commented that their girlfriends dress more modest and they are not believers.

Contrary to what some people believe these things do effect our witness to the world. When we dress and act like the world they don't want to come to Jesus. Why should they? They can live just like they want to in the world.

 

The word legalism seems to be the modern-day buzzword that we use to demonize anyone that disagrees with our convictions and preferences, or has more of them. The word in context spoke of the Judaic teachers that taught salvation was gained by the keeping of the Old Testament law. Paul's great book of Galatians deals extensively with this subject. I think that the word should not be used in this context, as it diminishes the danger of legalistic teaching. Furthermore, I think that there are many things that fall into the category of Romans 14, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

 

Which is what I posted several pages back. Let's wind this thread down folks; it's going nowhere.