Anything good from alcohol?

[gb93433]

First of all, the version you quote is watered down.

Second, alcohol is not a food, whether received or not.

1 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Notice it says every creature, not every thing. Everything could include poison, evil,... anything

The passage is specifically about food, not everything else.

So did Paul and Timothy leave the faith when Paul told Timothy, "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments. "

 

[reformedbeliever]

I always thought SBC churches were always autonomous.

Oh they are, but if you want to be funded by the NAMB, or seek any office or committee.... then you better not be a consumer of alcoholic beverages.... unless you want to lie on any paperwork. Its too bad that such a great organization has become so unbiblical. Grace and peace

 

[StefanM]

I always thought SBC churches were always autonomous.

They are, but it's rare to find the SBC church that wouldn't have a nuclear war over a pastor who has a glass of wine.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Finney would have shamed you for drinking tea.

He'd of shamed me for the doctrines of sovereign grace too. :laugh:

 

[whatever]

This one likely won't be received well either, even though the version is not watered down:

Romans 14:14 - "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

 

[bapmom]

I don't believe I gave credit to the alcohol, nor claimed to. God had the entire situation planned.

...then you believe wrong. If the Bible says it's good, I don't have to "try" to find anything.

Let the Bible say what's ok, bapmom, not other Christians. I specifically asked for those who are only looking to condemn other Christians to NOT post on this thread. Please respect my wishes.

Excuse me webdog,

I did NOT condemn you or any other poster, and I did and will continue to post on this thread in the vein that you have requested. Neither have I EVER condemned any other poster for use or not use of alcohol. I am in agreement with Charles Meadows' post when he said that we need to stop before the point of condemnation, but also realize that alcohol is indeed a stumblingblock for MANY people. Christians ought not be indulging in that which is a stumblingblock, even if it falls within their Christian liberties......whether it is specifically forbidden or not.

This is not a condemnation of those who partake, it is merely my opinion.

Also, it did seem as if you gave credit to the alcohol.......what other benefit were you claiming alcohol had on that visit with your neighbor? I thought I was very nice to you.......perhaps you took what I said the wrong way. It is difficult to portray emotions correctly on a forum board. I did not intend any harshness or sarcasm.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

So did Paul and Timothy leave the faith when Paul told Timothy, "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments. "

Ancient writers such as Aristotle, Athanaeus, and Pliny indicate that unfermented wine was known and preferred to alcoholic wine for medical purposes, because it did not have the side effects of the latter. In the light of these testimonies and of the other Biblical teachings regarding wine, it is reasonable to assume that the wine recommended by Paul for medical use was unfermented grape juice. The conclusion of this whole study on the Biblical teaching regarding the use of alcoholic beverages can be summarized in one sentence: Scripture is consistent in teaching moderation in the use of wholesome, unfermented beverages and abstinence from the use of intoxicating fermented beverages.

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

 

[blackbird]

Finney would have shamed you for drinking tea.

There's lots of ground between where I'm at and where Finney is at---if I were standing directly over his grave---there'd be at least--what???--6 feet of sod and dirt between us----no, he can't shame me from where he's layin'

I have people tell me----"You'd take a big ole guzzle from that beer can on a hot Mississippi day if thats all you had, wouldn't you???!!!"

That begs the question----I bet Finney would guzzle my tea on a hot Mississippi day if thats all he had, too!!!!

 

[Charles Meadows]

Reformed believer,

I did not agree to the insult directed at Webdog - only to the notion that witness is an integral part of the whole alcohol issue. It has major stumbling block potential.

 

[annsni]

So, can anyone tell me one good thing that comes from iced tea?? In the same way, why do we have to try to come up with one good thing that comes from alcohol (other than the delicious dinner I just made - Wine-Braised Italian Sausages - if anyone wants the recipe, I'd be happy to post it - it uses 1 cup of red wine cooked off well but leaving TONS of flavor.)? It's the MISUSE of alcohol that is bad - as is the misuse of iced tea for someone like me who's pre-diabetic. One glass of iced tea is probably causing MORE damage to me than a glass of wine is. My own doctors - my internist and my OB/gyn - have TOLD me to have a drink of wine at times (for tension migranes when I am away from strong medications, and for nursing when we went through a rough time with biting). That was basically a prescription - just like other medications that can cause GREATER problems physically - and I followed their advice.

I think this subject has been beaten to death and pulverized. Jesus Himself said "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person." So those who say that alcohol is evil and those who drink it will go to hell are completely, utterly and fully stating that Jesus is a liar. There's no if's and's or but's about this. It is a shaky thing for someone to call someone a 'so -called believer' - what right do YOU have to question a person's salvation?? That is pretty prideful and I do think that there is something about pride coming before a fall in the Bible - right?

Ann

PS - Helen - I LOVED your post - and fully 100% agree with it!

 

[Brother Bob]

Well Webdog;,
How many "good" experiences have you read about on this entire thread? I see another fight over whether you can "drink" acohol, but I haven't read not even "one so called experience" on the entire thread.

Acohol is a tool of the devil regardless of what Helen says or anyone else. I think this is where teaching that Christians can drink moderately leads to and why it should not be taught. peace

 

[Helen]

Brother Bob, it is a tool that can be used by the devil, just as any tool can be. But, again just like any tool, it is not evil in and of itself.

OK, you want a good experience? I work hard around here and I am also in physical pain almost 24/7. That means I can be wound up pretty tight by evening. It takes me time to unwind enough to respond when my husband wants to cuddle up. A glass of wine with dinner erases the problem and I am more than happy to be the wife he wants and needs. We both think of that as a very positive and enjoyable benefit from wine.

Heaven knows (and that is not just an expression), I MUCH prefer that to being drugged with pain-killers and too loopy to respond at all! (Please keep in mind that even two ibuprofen can have that effect if I am tired, whereas a glass of wine won't).

 

[Brother Bob]

OK, you want a good experience? I work hard around here and I am also in physical pain almost 24/7. That means I can be wound up pretty tight by evening. It takes me time to unwind enough to respond when my husband wants to cuddle up. A glass of wine with dinner erases the problem and I am more than happy to be the wife he wants and needs. We both think of that as a very positive and enjoyable benefit from wine.

I doubt very seriously you have the pain I live with and I would never consider going to acohol for the answer. Again, this kind of talk among the Baptist today will produce a family of drunk Baptist in the future and that is almost a surety. I know a brother who took a drink like yourself but he didn't advertise it to all the young Christians out there. No wonder people are removing the name Baptist from their churches. I find it very disturbing and I am not throwing stones at you or anyone but telling what I think the future holds with this kind of Bibical teachings.

 

[annsni]

I doubt very seriously you have the pain I live with and I would never consider going to acohol for the answer. Again, this kind of talk among the Baptist today will produce a family of drunk Baptist in the future and that is almost a surety. I know a brother who took a drink like yourself but he didn't advertise it to all the young Christians out there. No wonder people are removing the name Baptist from their churches. I find it very disturbing and I am not throwing stones at you or anyone but telling what I think the future holds with this kind of Bibical teachings.

You know, I understand that you have a history behind feeling the way you do but not everyone who drinks one glass of wine with dinner or a beer here and there will become a fall-down drunk. I'm not a drunk and I had a glass of wine 2 weeks ago for a tension migrane. I think it's a pretty broad thing to accuse people of that.

Again, I remember from another thread/post that you have had issues with alcohol in your past and in that case, I totally understand why you feel this way. Just please don't project your experiences on everyone.

 

[Helen]

I am not going to try to compare pain. What I have is generally all I think I could cope with without being on pain medication all the time. In the meantime, I consider wine, occasionally, in the evening, at home with my husband, to be a gift from God.

Not at bars. Not at parties. One glass, either in my own home or in someone else's when we are there for dinner.

It is enjoyable. It is a gift. I am grateful for it.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I doubt very seriously you have the pain I live with and I would never consider going to acohol for the answer. Again, this kind of talk among the Baptist today will produce a family of drunk Baptist in the future and that is almost a surety. I know a brother who took a drink like yourself but he didn't advertise it to all the young Christians out there. No wonder people are removing the name Baptist from their churches. I find it very disturbing and I am not throwing stones at you or anyone but telling what I think the future holds with this kind of Bibical teachings.

Bob, this teaching that alcohol is ok in the life of a believer is not even Biblical teaching. It is worldly teaching.

Alcohol is a narcotic, a drug. It is a depressant. It is funny one will say they won't take painkillers, but will drink alcohol which is a painkiller itself.

Proverbs 23:35 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

 

[tinytim]

That verse isnt about pain killers, it is about a drunk that has passed out....
been there, done that.....a long time ago.

 

[Brother Bob]

I never brought up the pain but live the way you want just dont teach others to do so.

 

[annsni]

Brother Bob, what do you have to say about Jesus saying, "it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.......Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person." (Mt. 15)

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Apparently the alcohol, even in moderation has defiled the person. They utter perverse things such as God allows it as long as it is in moderation; thereby defiling them.

Even when they don't drink (if they are being truthful about not drinking at all) and make statements that alcohol is permitted, it has caused them to utter perverse things that are contrary to God's Word; thereby defiling them.