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Anything good from alcohol?
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Brother Bob
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Very good, but I didn't say it had anything I was talking about what you said.
You know Ann, I am more concerned about what the young people take away from this that the small or no content.
The OP was to tell good experiences about acohol and there have been none. Medical? thats why the Lord said we need physicians.
I been to an Association meeting last 2 days and got 1 more to go so I going to bed. Have a good night and peace,
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A couple of corrections here:
1. John's parents were not the only ones who were told he was to be consecrated as a Nazarite from birth. Samson's parents were also told that.
2. Helping a sick friend today by cleaning her kitchen. Some blackberries had been left in a closed jar for a couple of days. They were totally fermented. You could smell the alcohol. We tossed them.
1. John's parents were not the only ones who were told he was to be consecrated as a Nazarite from birth. Samson's parents were also told that.
2. Helping a sick friend today by cleaning her kitchen. Some blackberries had been left in a closed jar for a couple of days. They were totally fermented. You could smell the alcohol. We tossed them.
Brother Bob said:Very good, but I didn't say it had anything I was talking about what you said.
But a little is some. If it's meaning new wine, then it most certainly states new wine, as in Neh 10:39 and the word is not even yayin but tiyrowsh which means "wine, fresh or new wine, must, freshly pressed wine" So, I see the difference between tiyrowsh and yayin is the alcohol - whether it's little or a lot. The fact that well-aged wine is spoken of positively speaks of the fact that it's not the alcohol that's a sin.
annsni said:
From a kosher certification website:
"Kosher wine (or grape juice) which has been boiled prior to the bottling process is called yayin mevushal."
and another:
"it seems clear that water recovered from the concentration of non-kosher chicken soup is fleishig and treif, from stam yayin grape juice is stam yayin, and from milk is dairy. "
Brother Bob -
Can I ask you a totally honest question? Are you adding to your posts after you post them?? I keep reading only a line or two then come back and there's more and I keep thinking that I'm not looking far enough down to see the rest or there's something wrong with the way my computer picks up the posts.........or else this popcorn is going to my head!
Please tell me I'm not going crazy!!
Can I ask you a totally honest question? Are you adding to your posts after you post them?? I keep reading only a line or two then come back and there's more and I keep thinking that I'm not looking far enough down to see the rest or there's something wrong with the way my computer picks up the posts.........or else this popcorn is going to my head!
Please tell me I'm not going crazy!!
Brother Bob said:Very good, but I didn't say it had anything I was talking about what you said.
You know Ann, I am more concerned about what the young people take away from this that the small or no content.
The OP was to tell good experiences about acohol and there have been none. Medical? thats why the Lord said we need physicians.
I been to an Association meeting last 2 days and got 1 more to go so I going to bed. Have a good night and peace,
But just as there's no good experience you can attribute to apple juice or iced tea - the same can be said about alcohol. It's not an 'experience' but a beverage.
Have a great night! I hope you sleep well. My hubby is sawing wood as we speak (we've really gotten onto opposite clocks recently - I'm up until 2 AM, he's in bed by 9 - I'm up at 8 or 9 AM and he's up at 5)
:sleep:
Brother Bob said:
Could you give me any reference where I wrote what you claim?
To quench your allegations I have got news for you. I have drank wine and have never been drunk or ever gotten a buzz off of it. I have great control because personally I do not like the stuff and because my parents were grape farmers and saw how wine was made. As kids we could not understand how anyone would like it. The last time I drank any wine was when I was 15 (38 years ago). However, I have never been told not to drink wine, but I have also noticed that the areas of the U.S. where they preach against wine the most are also the same areas where I have seen more wine in the homes of Baptists and the teen pregnancy is the highest in the US. Don’t you have to ask yourself the question, “Why?” Apparently their preaching is of little value. Those are also the same areas where the most numbers of people go to Baptist churches thqan anywhere else in the U.S. Can you explain why?
Clearly the Bible says to not get drunk but give me one verse where the Bible says to completely abstain from wine.
Could you explain 1 Timothy 5:23, “No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.”
So you want some good things from alcohol. If you do a google.com search there are several if you really wanted to know. Currently the U.S. is building a number of ethanol plants. Apparently Baptists in other countries, the Amish and Amana communities think it is good. If my knowledge is correct many doctors use alcohol in their offices. Apparently the vast majority of Baptists in other countries, and some in the U.S. use wine in communion without your approval.
I cannot think of one good thing that comes from gasoline. Many people put it in their car to drive to church while polluting the air so others can breathe it .Do you use gas? Anything good come from it?
Again as I have written before, I will trust scripture over the opinion of any man.
So as I asked before could you give me a clear explanation of Paul’s command to Timothy in 1Timothy 5:23? I await your clear explanation.
annsni said:Hmmm - blackberry wine???
Good for you for helping a friend! I wish more people would do that (including me!).
:thumbs:
I don't know enough about making wine to have trusted myself with the stuff! I just know it was pretty thoroughly fermented!
Helping a friend? She needed it. That was all.
Diggin in da Word
New Member
annsni said:
As has been stated time and again, the art of preserving grape juice so that it will not ferment was possible and was practiced in Bible times. So, vintage wine was not necessarily alcoholic, nor was well aged wine necessarily alcoholic.
Diggin in da Word
New Member
Helen said:
John's parents were not told he would be a Nazarite.
You tossed them? Why did you toss them if alcohol is permitted?
Diggin in da Word said:
Just a thought, FWIW. And not speaking for anyone else, but just because something is "permitted" don't mean I'm doing it. Just because some food is "permitted" doesn't mean I'm a-eatin' it. I'm pretty sure turnips and Habernero peppers are "permitted" too, but I ain't eating either one of 'em. And I assure you that both grasshoppers and locusts were declared as "clean" under the Mosaic Law, and even if they had not been, were now declared clean by the Lord Jesus in the vision to Peter, and I still am not eating the first one, unless it is literally a question of starvation!
Ed
Hope of Glory
New Member
annsni said:
Few people, other than Jews, really spoke Hebrew, but most Jews spoke Hebrew (probably Aramaic, but called "Hebrew" even by their contemporaries in other nations) and Greek, and in many cases, Latin as well. Some were fluent in other languages as well, and as such, were prized by Roman statesmen, including Pontius Pilate, as translators for commerce.
Diggin in da Word
New Member
Jesus said about the new wine in old wineskins that the bottles would burst.
This is because of the albuminous matter in the old bottles that had allowed air to hit them would begin a fermentation process when mixed with the new wine, thus causing the skin to expand and burst.
Jesus went on to say that one put new wine into new wineskins and both would be preserved. Both the new wine (unfermented) and the new wineskin (free from old sediment) would be preserved, keeping the wine unfermented and sweet.
The wineskins, as pointed out by people of the first century BC and the first century AD, was sealed with a type of pitch so as to keep air from entering into the wineskin. The wineskin was kept in cool running water or buried in wet sand to keep the wine from getting hot and fermenting from the heat and time.
This is because of the albuminous matter in the old bottles that had allowed air to hit them would begin a fermentation process when mixed with the new wine, thus causing the skin to expand and burst.
Jesus went on to say that one put new wine into new wineskins and both would be preserved. Both the new wine (unfermented) and the new wineskin (free from old sediment) would be preserved, keeping the wine unfermented and sweet.
The wineskins, as pointed out by people of the first century BC and the first century AD, was sealed with a type of pitch so as to keep air from entering into the wineskin. The wineskin was kept in cool running water or buried in wet sand to keep the wine from getting hot and fermenting from the heat and time.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
Someone who objects to taking Proverbs 23:31 in its plain sense has suggested that the entire book of Proverbs is given to us to make us think and contains no firm commands to be obeyed, but this is against II Timothy 3:16. If Proverbs gives a command, that command must be obeyed.
...Another who objects to taking Prov. 23:31 as a command to all persons as individuals says it applies only to drunkards. His reason for doing that is that drunkards are mentioned, but drunkards and the ill effects of drinking are there to make clear what sort of yayin is prohibited, as there was nonalcoholic yayin as well as alcoholic. The idea of this objector is a very improper reason for seeking to avoid a clear command of God, which by reason of its place in the Bible is to be obeyed by all, not merely by drunkards.
That yayin in the Bible need not refer to an alcoholic drink is proved by Isaiah 16:10 and Jeremiah 48:33. Here the immediate product of treading grapes is called yayin, and yet everyone knows that the immediate product of treading grapes is called in modern (but not 17th century) English: grape juice.
This is all the evidence needed to affirm that wherever yayin is praised in the Bible it should be translated "grape juice," as for example when it is said that little children not fully weaned cry for it (Lam. 2:12) or when, in what may be the description of a harvest festival, fresh grape juice is being enjoyed by the happy harvesters and their friends and is called a gift of God from the earth to make glad the heart of man (Ps. 104:15).
One who objects to this suggests that yayin is properly translated wine (meaning an alcoholic beverage) in these passages by a figure of speech called prolepsis, but the context is altogether against this as can be proved if Mr. Gentry in a reply attempts to use this argument.
It is therefore certain that yayin in the Old Testament may be nonalcoholic, as incidentally it can be in modern Hebrew. God used a special phrase, yayin ki yith'addam to name the alcoholic kind. Furthermore, to make sure no one misses the point, He described what it does to the user. It bites like a serpent, stings like an adder, affects the vision and the heart badly, causes a condition like seasickness, insensitivity to pain and is habit forming.
This dangerous beverage is forbidden to be looked at in a series of prohibitions all the rest of which believers have universally accepted as easily understandable. But instead of saying drink not the prohibition is look not. This obviously does not mean that we can drink without looking. The meaning emphasizes the prohibition of verse 20. That verse commands us not to be among winebibbers. "Bad company corrupts good morals" (I Cor. 15:35 NAS). Verse 30 adds to the prohibition of verse 20 the further restriction that every person is forbidden to look at alcoholic wine lustfully whether in company or alone, because looking may lead to drinking. Drinking even a little of this beverage is a sin because it is forbidden to every individual person. This having been established, the rest of the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with it, and this is not as difficult as a student untrained in deep study of the original languages may imagine.
taken from: Reynolds: Scripture Prohibits the Drinking of Alhocolic Beverages
http://www.reformed.org/webfiles/antithesis/index.html?mainframe=/webfiles/antithesis/v2n2/ant_v2n2_issue2.html
...Another who objects to taking Prov. 23:31 as a command to all persons as individuals says it applies only to drunkards. His reason for doing that is that drunkards are mentioned, but drunkards and the ill effects of drinking are there to make clear what sort of yayin is prohibited, as there was nonalcoholic yayin as well as alcoholic. The idea of this objector is a very improper reason for seeking to avoid a clear command of God, which by reason of its place in the Bible is to be obeyed by all, not merely by drunkards.
That yayin in the Bible need not refer to an alcoholic drink is proved by Isaiah 16:10 and Jeremiah 48:33. Here the immediate product of treading grapes is called yayin, and yet everyone knows that the immediate product of treading grapes is called in modern (but not 17th century) English: grape juice.
This is all the evidence needed to affirm that wherever yayin is praised in the Bible it should be translated "grape juice," as for example when it is said that little children not fully weaned cry for it (Lam. 2:12) or when, in what may be the description of a harvest festival, fresh grape juice is being enjoyed by the happy harvesters and their friends and is called a gift of God from the earth to make glad the heart of man (Ps. 104:15).
One who objects to this suggests that yayin is properly translated wine (meaning an alcoholic beverage) in these passages by a figure of speech called prolepsis, but the context is altogether against this as can be proved if Mr. Gentry in a reply attempts to use this argument.
It is therefore certain that yayin in the Old Testament may be nonalcoholic, as incidentally it can be in modern Hebrew. God used a special phrase, yayin ki yith'addam to name the alcoholic kind. Furthermore, to make sure no one misses the point, He described what it does to the user. It bites like a serpent, stings like an adder, affects the vision and the heart badly, causes a condition like seasickness, insensitivity to pain and is habit forming.
This dangerous beverage is forbidden to be looked at in a series of prohibitions all the rest of which believers have universally accepted as easily understandable. But instead of saying drink not the prohibition is look not. This obviously does not mean that we can drink without looking. The meaning emphasizes the prohibition of verse 20. That verse commands us not to be among winebibbers. "Bad company corrupts good morals" (I Cor. 15:35 NAS). Verse 30 adds to the prohibition of verse 20 the further restriction that every person is forbidden to look at alcoholic wine lustfully whether in company or alone, because looking may lead to drinking. Drinking even a little of this beverage is a sin because it is forbidden to every individual person. This having been established, the rest of the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with it, and this is not as difficult as a student untrained in deep study of the original languages may imagine.
taken from: Reynolds: Scripture Prohibits the Drinking of Alhocolic Beverages
http://www.reformed.org/webfiles/antithesis/index.html?mainframe=/webfiles/antithesis/v2n2/ant_v2n2_issue2.html
Nope!:thumbsup:
Was his name Paul and the other Timothy?Diggin in da Word said:
Maybe I am missing something but could you explain a small verse found in 1 Timothy 5:23, "No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments." How does this verse line up with what you believe? Of course it doesn't ever have to, but you must line up with what it teaches.
My life must adhere to scripture not what some man says. I trust the Bible inspired by the Holy Spirit to be accurate not what a man says first. I believe God. I always thought so many believed the Bible, but now I am beginning to wonder how many really do trust what God inspired to be written for our instruction. It seems not many. If that being the case should we wonder why they pick and choose what to believe. After all that is what true liberals do.
All scripture is inspired by God not just the part we like or feel comfortable with.
Hope of Glory
New Member
So, gb, would you think that Paul was a coward for teaching Timothy to drink that debil juice, or was Timothy the coward for drinking it? Oh, wait, we were informed earlier that if Paul was teaching it, he must be a drunk as well, so they must both be cowards. (BTW, I couldn't find the facetious tag...)
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