Anything 'Like' IFB?

[Jerome]

Independent = New York Southern Baptist churches are free to call women pastors

SBC organ Baptist Press just announced Renee Trewick of Bronx Baptist Church is now chair of Guidestone's trustees.
Well here is her pastor at Bronx Baptist Church, preaching! :

 

[Salty]

Let me check this out.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

My observation is most here are so SBC centric they don't see that IFBdom is splintered into various and sundry sectors. What may be true of one or more sectors is not true for others.

 

[Dave G]

I guess my question is this, is there a Church with the same ‘standards’ as an IFB (hymns, non-gifts of the spirit, world stance, abstaining from alcohol, etc), same ACTUAL fundamental doctrine (i.e.- Salvation, Christ Deity, Biblical Baptism, etc., etc) that ALSO believes in the liberty given to us through Christ?

I'm not sure, Wally.

I came to Christ at the age of 12 during preaching in an IB church in 1978, so I've seen a lot.
But I no longer attend visible churches like I did back then or even like I did 20 years ago.
That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Does it have to be a visible church on a street corner, or can it be a group of God's children meeting in, say, someone's home?
The latter might take some bit of not only digging, but a lot of prayer to find.

2) What do you think that liberty gives believers the freedom to do, given God's commands in Galatians 5?
For example, to me, Christian liberty means I can take a drink, but I wouldn't do it in front of my bothers and sisters.


Personally, growing up as an "IFB", I saw many things preached against that when I was a young believer I took exception to, like worldly music.
Now that I'm older and having studied His precious words for many years now, I see that many forms of music are not God-honoring, and are simply borrowed from the world so that everyone can "get a groove" on.

Many things I saw preached against and that I thought "too restrictive" when I was in my teens, I now see in my fifties as not only vital, but something that God commands every believer to do ...because those are things He is going to judge the lost for.
Most of those are behavioral in nature.

I've seen church splits based on modern music vs. the old hymns ( which I now value highly and completely throw out "CCM" ), and I've seen pastors dismissed by those who want to "progress" and "be more freely expressive" ( to me, that's a different way of saying they want to enjoy the things of this world, which I've had a lot of experience in doing ), and are willing to do anything to get it.

I've also seen Independent Baptist churches who cannot seem to get away from "Hyles-ism", nor do any of the members appear to progress further than milk in their doctrines, nor does anyone seem to care about studying God's word.
As it is, I think the last time I was in a church that actually preached anything resembling sound doctrine was when I was 39 or 40...and I will be 54 on Friday.



Mostly what I see nowadays ( especially in my own area ) are churches, IB / IFB or no, that aren't interested in the details of Scripture, but are more interested in getting the "program" completed, getting church over and going out to dinner and a movie... or going home and watching the football game.

People getting excited and praising the Lord for His grace and mercy, and for His abundant gifts of this life...for always delivering them out of their troubles and comforting them during their trials?
Taking the Bible seriously and actually wanting to obey the Lord's commands?

No.
To me, those kinds of churches, if they are not already gone, are close to dying out altogether.
Doctrinally sound churches?
I don't think I've ever been in one that preached the entire counsel of God's word, but some were what I would call, "in the ballpark".


I wish you well in your search.

 

[xlsdraw]

I'm not sure, Wally.

I came to Christ at the age of 12 during preaching in an IB church in 1978, so I've seen a lot.
But I no longer attend visible churches like I did back then or even like I did 20 years ago.
That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Does it have to be a visible church on a street corner, or can it be a group of God's children meeting in, say, someone's home?
The latter might take some bit of not only digging, but a lot of prayer to find.

2) What do you think that liberty gives believers the freedom to do, given God's commands in Galatians 5?
For example, to me, Christian liberty means I can take a drink, but I wouldn't do it in front of my bothers and sisters.


Personally, growing up as an "IFB", I saw many things preached against that when I was a young believer I took exception to, like worldly music.
Now that I'm older and having studied His precious words for many years now, I see that many forms of music are not God-honoring, and are simply borrowed from the world so that everyone can "get a groove" on.

Many things I saw preached against and that I thought "too restrictive" when I was in my teens, I now see in my fifties as not only vital, but something that God commands every believer to do ...because those are things He is going to judge the lost for.
Most of those are behavioral in nature.

I've seen church splits based on modern music vs. the old hymns ( which I now value highly and completely throw out "CCM" ), and I've seen pastors dismissed by those who want to "progress" and "be more freely expressive" ( to me, that's a different way of saying they want to enjoy the things of this world, which I've had a lot of experience in doing ), and are willing to do anything to get it.

I've also seen Independent Baptist churches who cannot seem to get away from "Hyles-ism", nor do any of the members appear to progress further than milk in their doctrines, nor does anyone seem to care about studying God's word.
As it is, I think the last time I was in a church that actually preached anything resembling sound doctrine was when I was 39 or 40...and I will be 54 on Friday.



Mostly what I see nowadays ( especially in my own area ) are churches, IB / IFB or no, that aren't interested in the details of Scripture, but are more interested in getting the "program" completed, getting church over and going out to dinner and a movie... or going home and watching the football game.

People getting excited and praising the Lord for His grace and mercy, and for His abundant gifts of this life...for always delivering them out of their troubles and comforting them during their trials?
Taking the Bible seriously and actually wanting to obey the Lord's commands?

No.
To me, those kinds of churches, if they are not already gone, are close to dying out altogether.
Doctrinally sound churches?
I don't think I've ever been in one that preached the entire counsel of God's word, but some were what I would call, "in the ballpark".


I wish you well in your search.

That church does indeed still exist. I'll be watching online in a few minutes.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Doctrinally sound churches?
I don't think I've ever been in one that preached the entire counsel of God's word, but some were what I would call, "in the ballpark".

.

Preaching the entire counsel of God's word is a task beyond any single local assembly IMO, as that's a bottomless well of awesome. As has happened to me, I'm confident you've discovered gems upon a 10th reading of a passage that were missed in the first 9. The churches I've called home since 1981 when we first began going to true Bible-preaching ministries don't seem to be avoiding major parts of scripture, but given the breadth of God's word, I can't say those churches have preached the entire counsel of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not sure, Wally.

I came to Christ at the age of 12 during preaching in an IB church in 1978, so I've seen a lot.
But I no longer attend visible churches like I did back then or even like I did 20 years ago.
That said, I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Does it have to be a visible church on a street corner, or can it be a group of God's children meeting in, say, someone's home?
The latter might take some bit of not only digging, but a lot of prayer to find.

2) What do you think that liberty gives believers the freedom to do, given God's commands in Galatians 5?
For example, to me, Christian liberty means I can take a drink, but I wouldn't do it in front of my bothers and sisters.


Personally, growing up as an "IFB", I saw many things preached against that when I was a young believer I took exception to, like worldly music.
Now that I'm older and having studied His precious words for many years now, I see that many forms of music are not God-honoring, and are simply borrowed from the world so that everyone can "get a groove" on.

Many things I saw preached against and that I thought "too restrictive" when I was in my teens, I now see in my fifties as not only vital, but something that God commands every believer to do ...because those are things He is going to judge the lost for.
Most of those are behavioral in nature.

I've seen church splits based on modern music vs. the old hymns ( which I now value highly and completely throw out "CCM" ), and I've seen pastors dismissed by those who want to "progress" and "be more freely expressive" ( to me, that's a different way of saying they want to enjoy the things of this world, which I've had a lot of experience in doing ), and are willing to do anything to get it.

I've also seen Independent Baptist churches who cannot seem to get away from "Hyles-ism", nor do any of the members appear to progress further than milk in their doctrines, nor does anyone seem to care about studying God's word.
As it is, I think the last time I was in a church that actually preached anything resembling sound doctrine was when I was 39 or 40...and I will be 54 on Friday.



Mostly what I see nowadays ( especially in my own area ) are churches, IB / IFB or no, that aren't interested in the details of Scripture, but are more interested in getting the "program" completed, getting church over and going out to dinner and a movie... or going home and watching the football game.

People getting excited and praising the Lord for His grace and mercy, and for His abundant gifts of this life...for always delivering them out of their troubles and comforting them during their trials?
Taking the Bible seriously and actually wanting to obey the Lord's commands?

No.
To me, those kinds of churches, if they are not already gone, are close to dying out altogether.
Doctrinally sound churches?
I don't think I've ever been in one that preached the entire counsel of God's word, but some were what I would call, "in the ballpark".


I wish you well in your search.

You are not forsaking the assembly of the bethren are you? As we are commanded to fellowship in a local assembly!

 

[Yeshua1]

Preaching the entire counsel of God's word is a task beyond any single local assembly IMO, as that's a bottomless well of awesome. As has happened to me, I'm confident you've discovered gems upon a 10th reading of a passage that were missed in the first 9. The churches I've called home since 1981 when we first began going to true Bible-preaching ministries don't seem to be avoiding major parts of scripture, but given the breadth of God's word, I can't say those churches have preached the entire counsel of God.

His list for the rito wait to heaven to assenble in that church!ght church is perfect theology and preaching, right worship music, KJVO, right dress code and conduct, think have

 

[zcostilla]

Not every IFB church will teach standards are the way to sanctification. Our church holds that standards are the result of sanctification, because sanctification is the personal dedication to be holy and separated from the world in its lusts and desires. The result is the liberty to grow as a a Christian without having expectations forced upon you from others, with the exception of things that the Bible clearly teaches as sinful (i.e. fornication, stealing, etc.). We have the result to be one that welcomes in lost people, encourages the newly saved, and reminds the faithful to practice grace. Standards are biblical, and we have found them to be very helpful when Practiced this way because it promotes question/answer by the saved as to WHY we’re different (also reinforced through expository preaching as those passages come up) and the loving answers usually promote faster growth in their faith, though there are scorners, as even the Bible recognizes.

Now we do have standards for leadership, for multiple reasons. God has qualifications for Pastors and Deacons that must be upheld. There are also practical standards for seeking the example to the flock. Teachers, choir members, ushers, security specialists, and other volunteers must attend two of the three standard services a week to allow for work schedules, allowing for emergencies, temporary exceptions, etc. They must also have a good testimony, and a good spirit. And because if the litigious society we live in, our insurance requires that every lay person teacher and volunteer must be willing to submit to random background checks. Pastors, Deacons, and staff members all have mandatory background checks.

 

[Yeshua1]

Don't forget:

KJV only
Authoritarian leadership style
No clapping after a musical performance in church
Tendency toward strict educational policies, either homeschooling or IFB schools
Attending movies, theaters, plays
Long hair on men
Eating at certain restaurants
Mixed gender swimming
Open-toed shoes on women (is this still a thing?)



They're out there, though difficult to find that check all the boxes. The church I attend has contemporary music and teaches that abstaining from alcohol is a good thing, but not a Biblical teaching, otherwise they've got all those things you listed.

BTW, welcome to the board.

Looks like they are far more into externals then the internals!

 

[Yeshua1]

Back in the day, all conservative churches were like this. CCM did not exist. All Biblical churches were against alcoholic beverages. Pastors and evangelists regularly preached against worldly entertainment such as movies. Before movies, preachers spoke against the theater. Famous missionary Hudson Taylor was even against reading novels, and forbade them when he took his first group of CIM missionaries to China.

Now I agree that these prohibitions do not bring revival, but it is necessary for the believer to "love not the world" as the Apostle John put it.

When did all of this change? Historically, when New Evangelicalism began in the 1950's, the New Evangelicals (Billy Graham and his fellow travelers) opposed the personal standards, called "personal separation," of the fundamentalists. The classic work against such standards is The Grace Awakening, by Chuck Swindoll. However, no revival occurred with the abandonment of personal standards. In fact, the evangelical world is worse off than ever.

Actually, Pastor Chuck was against taking our personal preferences and convictions and elevating them to moral obligations for all to uphold!

 

[zcostilla]

I’ve often wondered how much conservatism we find in church is leftover from Puritan and Victoria influences. I know the Temperance Movement was post-Civil War, but a lot of the social mores we have in church are external measures of how far one goes to meet an internal guidance of purity and separation, to the point we judge how separated one is by how far they go. And this seems to have led to this imposition of standards as a measure of righteousness. It’s not legalism in the sense of someone being saved or not, but it is a man made measure of sanctification that the Bible doesn’t give specifics about (i.e. How long should a dress be? How tight is too tight? How long does a man’s hair have to be to be too long? etc.)

 

[AF Guy N Paradise]

I am struggling in this area as well and have recently moved looking for a new church...

I have attended several IFB churches over the last 20 years or so and feel comfortable in them for the most part. However, sometimes I get frustrated with their rules/standards/values such as you can only teach or be an usher if you wear a coat and tie...

But then when I attend a different church that is a little more lax, I feel funny and uncomfortable...

And when that praise band and loud music beat with the drums is happening, I really feel uncomfortable.

I guess I want the conservative, values, standards, but not for them to elevate these too high or too much. I share with Wally on what he has stated...

 

[Salty]

I am struggling in this area as well and have recently moved looking for a new church......

Are you still Active Duty? Are you CONUS or OCONUS?

If overseas - I know it can be hard to find a church you are comfortable.
For myself - where there is a band with drums- well thats just not for me.
In addition - I could never understand a "praise team" they just get up there and
start singing - and you are supposed to just follow along - I prefer a music director - who makes the song time exciting.

As far as standards - I prefer to wear a Suit and tie - and I keep my haircut - GI style - so those standards dont bother me.
But there can be other things - I was a member of one church- and on Wed night prayer meeting (the women go in the back room) the men would keel at the alter for prayer time - in fact - they insisted you did - I guess kneeling makes you more spiritual - so because they insisted - I just sat on the platform (aka - altar).
Yep it can be hard sometimes - but just continue to serve the Lord.

 

[AF Guy N Paradise]

Salty! It has been a while!

I have been retired 11 years now but still work for the AF as a civil service employee in TX.

I concur with what you say and I also still wear a flattop, lol...

But I have gotten too fat and a suit and tie are just very uncomfortable to me...

My old church wondered why it was so hard to get ushers but I told them to eliminate the mandatory suit and tie and there would be more volunteers including myself.

I am not asking to allow sweat pants, shorts, or slippers - just slacks or equivalent and a decent shirt...

I agree with your music sentiment but it would not be a DQ for me if I liked the rest of the church.

We visited one IFB that I liked but was amazed how drums and electric guitars are creeping into IFB churches - again , not a total DQ for me but for me it just my preference and taste. And I hate IFBs and others that insist music, dress, etc are mandatory a certain way and that for those that don't agree are just not as spiritual and discerning...

 

[Marooncat79]

I have a friend who pastors in Casa Grande. Went to church w him 35 yrs ago

 

[Southern Fried Baptist]

My two sons and their wives, and my wife and I all attend IFB churches and they could'nt be more different. Ours is pretty conservative while one Sons church plays CCM and has coffee (gasp) in the sanctuary and the other plays bluegrass gospel and I lovingly refer as Biker Baptist!

 

[Salty]

Salty! It has been a while!

We visited one IFB that I liked but was amazed how drums and electric guitars are creeping into IFB churches - again , not a total DQ for me but for me it just my preference and taste. And I hate IFBs and others that insist music, dress, etc are mandatory a certain way and that for those that don't agree are just not as spiritual and discerning...

Have you thought about a SBC church, or other solid Baptist Group?

 

[AF Guy N Paradise]

Have you thought about a SBC church, or other solid Baptist Group?

Yes, since all 3 or 4 IFBs are about a 35-40 minute drive, I have thought about something closer and have even visited a couple. One a very small country church that is a Northern Baptist and one that is non-denominational but very Baptistic in their core beliefs...