Apologetics For A Trichotomy Of Man

[Paleouss]

Greetings to all my brothers in Christ.

Below are some apologetic points for the biblical representation of mankind as a Trichotomy (not Dichotomy).


1. There is one God in three persons: Father, Son, Spirit. “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness” (Gen 1:26). Adam is created (Gen 2:7) in His image and likeness (Gen 1:26-27) (and all the implications of this).

2. Some want to contend that “soul” (nepes) and “spirit” (ruah) are used interchangeably within the Scripture. But is this the case when the text speaks about God? Within the Scripture, the reference to "my soul" (nepes) as it relates to God is never used interchangeably with "my spirit" (ruah). The specific uses of “my soul” for God are found in Lev 26:30, Gen 27:4, 34:3,49:6; Lev 26:11, 26:30; Isa 42:1; Jer 6:8. These references to God saying "my soul" always presents God as personhood, that is, separate/distinct/other than creation. Like, my soul and your soul. As an aside, this is one way we can deny pantheism.

• “My soul” is the principal of personhood that distinguishes My soul from your soul.

Conversely, the use of "my spirit" (ruah) within the text when referring to God, only and always, imply relation to others in which God's "spirit" is said to ‘pour out’ (Prov 1:23, Isa 44:3, Eze 39:29) , ‘put upon’ (Isa 42:1, 59:21), ‘pour upon’ (Eze 39:29), ‘put within’(Eze 36:27, 37:14), ‘abide in’ (Gen 6:3). We never see within the biblical text these terms, ‘put within’, ‘abide in’, ‘put upon’, ‘pour upon’ being used in conjunction with the phrase ‘my soul’ (Heb. nep̄ eš) as it pertains to God. God is never said to pour his soul upon us. Within the biblical text, “my soul”, when used to refer to God, is used as distinct personhood or separateness, and my spirit is used in reference to relations and communion with mankind.

• “My spirit” is the principal of life and communion between God and mankind.

This distinction and purposeful use of God using “my soul” within the text as His own personhood in distinction between each and every other personhood of mankind’, and the purposeful use of “my spirit” in relation to communion and interaction with mankind is also consistently seen in the unique roles of the Trinity (Father, Son, Spirit).

3. The Trinity. God the Father is the epicenter of praise and worship (Phil 4:20, 2:6; John 8:49-50,12:28, 2:16,17:1-4, Heb 5:5, Matt 5:9-13,7:21). This language is the representation and equivalent of “my soul” in which everything flows from God the Father for He is the source and planner of all things (John 5:19). He sends the Son but the Son never sends the Father (1John 4:9), He pours out His Spirit but the Spirit never pours out the Father. On the other hand, God the Son carries out the plans and will of the Father (John 5:30, 6:38; Heb 10:11); He is Immanuel, “God with us” in body and flesh; He is the divine in the flesh (1Tim 3:16).... and it is said that the Father’s will is accomplished “through” God the Son (John 1:1-14). Additionally, the Holy Spirit reveals the Father’s will (John 15:26-27; 1Cor 2:10; John 16:13;Rom 8:16); but the Father never reveals the Holy Spirit’s will; and the Holy Spirit provides strength and power to carry out the will of the Father (Mic 3:8; Eph 3:16; 2Tim 1:7; Luke 1:17, 1:35, 4:14; Acts 1:8, 10:38; Rom 15:13; 1Cor 5:8; Isa 40:29-31).

It therefore follows that if the words “soul” (nepes) and “spirit” (ruah) are used as distinctively different when describing God… and mankind is created in the likeness and image of God (Gen 1:26-27)… then the same might be true for mankind also. However, some contend that for mankind the terms “soul” (nepes) and “spirit” (ruah) are interchangeable. But upon closer inspection, this doesn’t seem to be the case at all (seen in #5); they are not interchangeable, just like when used in regard to God.

4. Prov 20:27 tells us that the "spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord" (Prov 20:27). So this verse tells us that man has a "spirit" and gives some insight into what it is used for. But is this term “spirit” interchangeable with the word “soul” as some contend? Interestingly, this verse can be paired with Heb 4:12 and my point #3 & #4 above, that is, the term “spirit” in this context has to do with the relations to God. Just as the “my spirit” in regard to God has to do with relations to mankind.

We notice in many verses that want to communicate some kind of relation with God, the word "spirit" is used. In the verses where the author wants to communicate personhood or mankind's perspective or ownership of their own personhood, the word "soul is used". This nuance difference can be found in some of the following verses, Matt 6:25, Jam 2:26, 1Cor 6:20, Luke 1:46-47, Isa 26:9, Matt 10:28, Num 14:24.

5. Heb 4:12 tells us that the Spirit, to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart, divides the "soul and spirit". This clearly suggests that mankind always had after creation, and currently have after the sin of Adam, a spirit-soul. I have much more on this verse but will refrain.

6. Regarding man continuing to have a spirit after Adam’s sin. Job 34:14 specifically says... “[If] He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, 15 All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust” (Job 34:14). This specific verse explicitly states that man would return to dust if the "spirit" (which is breath from Genesis 2:7) was taken or returned to God from mankind. It seems a clear logical progression that if mankind didn't have a "spirit" then he would return to dust. Therefore... man still has a "spirit" because all men have not returned to the dust (at least the current living ones).

7. Ecc 12:7 backs up Job 34:14 and explicitly states that if a man were to die then, and only then, the “dust will return to the earth” and the “spirit will return to God”... and this next part is the important connective part to Genesis 2:7… “God who gave it” (Ecc 12:7). When in scripture have we been told that God gave something regarding a “spirit” (not Spirit big “S”) that relates to life and mankind? That would be Genesis 2:7.

8. Job 33:4 explicitly states that the spirit (small 's' and translated "breath") gives man life. That is, the spirit in man is what gives and keeps man alive. This is also seen in Job 12:10. Both these verses support Job 34:14 and Ecc 12:7.

9. Zac 12:1 tells us that God "forms the spirit of man within him". This word "forms" suggests that the inner man is not just (B) in the A+B, this verse is not talking about the body but what is "within him". Thus, the inner man is "formed" not simply "given". Meaning, what was created is not just sugar water (see #2).

10. Job 32:8 explicitly states... "there is a spirit in man" (Job 32:8).

11. Of course there is also the 1 Thes 5:23, "and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless" (1Thes 5:23) .
--The spirit of man is the principal of life.
--The soul of man is the principal of personhood.

12. Genesis 2:7 is a formula for the creation of mankind. Some have contended that this formula is something like a+b=c. But this formula is not suggesting we have “sugar water”, which is what a+b=c suggests. That is, the formula is not sugar plus water equals sugar water, but that (a) “dust” plus (b) “breath” plus (c) the “creative act” equals a “new element”.

The formula in Gen 2:7 is likened unto the creation of a new element, taking two adams (dust and spirit) and through the process (creative act) a new element “becomes” or “emerges”. This new element that emerges still retains some of the characteristics of the two ingredients, but it is not simply two ingredients put together like sugar water. They, the previous ingredients, are now logical components of a whole (in oneness) that is something new, a new element, in which its previous ingredients can be logically divided and understood but not easily distinguishable as separate. Just like a new element; its neutrons, electrons and protons.
So the biblical text in Genesis 2:7 literally gives us: āp̄ār (“dust”) + nᵊšāmâ (“breath, spirit”) = hāyâ (“became, become, exist”) nep̄eš (“soul”) ḥay (“living, alive”) nep̄eš (“soul”).

• “Dust” + “breath, spirit” = “became, become, exist”,“soul”, “living, alive”, “soul”.

As you notice, in the Hebrew text, it says God took dust and spirit and with it “became soul” a “living soul”. It uses the word nep̄eš twice in Genesis 2:7. It describes the soul as first “becoming” and then as “living”.
Thus, the formula given is actually (1) “dust-other” [a∈A], and (2) “spirit-life” [b∈B], where God in (3) the“creative act” [C], brings forth a “living being” [=D] or a “living soul” that is said to “become”. So the formula that shows what the creative act has done in Genesi 2:7, which means after the creative act, looks like this… dust-other-life/spirit-life-other, which is the body/spirit-soul. (I’ll refrain from putting more on this).

• dust-other-life/spirit-life-other

13. The tabernacle itself, the division of three, is a representation of body/spirit/soul and the Trinity, Son/Spirit/Father. This point could be long, so I'll just leave it at that.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2)

 

[Van]

Very informative post, too bad its biblical conclusion misses the mark.

We have a human spirit that God formed within us. As we grow and mature, we attain core attributes and characteristics, which constitute our soul.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

1) Heart here is used to indicate full commitment, not reserving someone or something to treasure.
2) Soul here is used to indicate that our core attitudes and characteristic love God
3) Mind here is used to indicate that our mind's feelings, understanding and desires are toward love for God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1) Spirit here is used to indicate the rational mind of humans, where we feel, decide, and will.
2) Soul here is used to indicate "breath" or our life force, i.e. our human spirit.
3) Body here is used to indicate our physical body as the instrument of human spirit. Those born anew have been sanctified spiritually, but at Christ's second coming, we will be sanctified entirely, both body and spirit/soul.

 

[Van]

Way back in Elementary School, someone claimed, "when two vowels go out walking, the first one does the talking." The corollary is that when the human spirit and human soul go our walking, they never part company. Thus the concept of our "soul" being the core characteristics and attributes of our human spirit is never challenged in scripture.

 

[Paleouss]

Greetings again Van. Glad to hear from you. Hope you are having a great weekend.

Very informative post

Thank you.

too bad its biblical conclusion misses the mark.

You had me hopeful there for a second (wink).

We have a human spirit that God formed within us

Could you provide verses for this please?

As we grow and mature, we attain core attributes and characteristics, which constitute our soul.

That sounds like being "born again"or being made "anew" or "alive". Further, it sounds like sanctification. I don't see how this counters my assertion that the Bible shows us that we are a trichotomy. All this, what you wrote, goes perfectly well with what I said (as an added).

You go on to give me a verse, Matt 22:37, that doesn't seem to address the debate between whether mankind is a trichotomy (body, spirit, soul) or dichotomy (body, soul). Unless you are trying to say that mankind is a multi-chotomy of some kind (made up that word). I will make four assertion and then address your heart, soul, mind, verse.

1. Mankind is made up of an inner self and an outer self (2Cor 4:16).
2. The spirit of man is the principle of life.
3. The soul of man is the principle of personhood.
4. The spirit of man and the soul of man is caught up in oneness and can only be logically divided (but God can divide spirit from soul).

Now to address your verse and the topic of heart, mind, and soul.

1. Within the Hebrew culture there was what is called synonymous parallelism. Synonymous parallelism can be found in many examples of Hebrew poetry and within Hebrew literature. What it does that relates to our topic is communicate the same idea in two or more lines but uses different words (two or three words being very common).

In the case of your offered verse (Matthew 22:37), the three words that are similar are "heart", "soul", and "mind". The use of all three, and whatever their commonality was to be communicated, is the emphasis the author intended.

Here is your presented verse for reference.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Now the question is, what does the author intend to emphasize by using these words and what do they have in common?

To first understand this, it is important to understand what the soul, heart, and mind are within scripture.

Within scripture the soul is the 'principal of personhood' and the heart and mind are of the soul.
This is not to say that the heart is something other than the soul or that the soul is something other than the heart. For our arms are not something other than the body and the body is not something other than the arms. But the arms are of the body and the body consists of its arms. So too, the heart of man is of the soul and the soul consists of its heart (1Chr 22:19). In other words, the soul is the principal of personhood of a self that is both body and soul; and the heart is the seat of that innermost personhood (Prov 4:23 NIV).

The heart (Heb. lēḇ, Gr. kardia) is the seat of the innermost man, for “above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.” (Prov 4:23 NIV). It is the wellspring from which thoughts (Gen 6:5, Luke 1:51, Matt 9:4), questioning (Mar 2:8), doubts (Luke 24:38), desire (Ps 37:4), attitudes (Pro 3:5, 2Chr 19:9, 2Kin 20:3, 1Kin 2:4, Rom 10:10, Rom 10:9), and emotions (1 Sam. 2:1, Deu 28:47, Prov 15:15, 1Sam 1:8) spring forth. The heart is not only the wellspring of emotions and attitudes of the soul but also consists of the mind. For it is said that the “soul chooses” (Job 7:15 NKJV) and the “soul refuses” (Job 6:7 NKJV) just as the heart “devises wicked plans” (Pov 6:18, 16:9, 19:21 NKJV) while the “mind” has many plans (Prov 19:21 ESV).

Now this can be confusing to the mind in trying to understand how it is that the "soul chooses" AND the heart devises plans AND the mind makes plans (seen in the verses above). But for our understanding, the mind then is a function of the heart in which there is intellect, reason, and thoughts. Further, we must not be confused and think that the mind is one thing and the heart is another. But to correctly think that the heart is the seat of the innermost self, the innermost self being the soul, and the mind is a function of that seat. And to say that the mind has two faculties is not to say that there is the heart and then there is the mind that has two powers. But to say that there is the heart, the seat of the soul, and the mind is a function of the heart that has the power to choose, reason, and understand.

Once we understand that the soul, heart, and mind all have something in common, i.e., personhood. Then we can now understand more of what the author of Matt 22:37 intended when he used synonymous parallelism.

The overarching message is... love the Lord with all your personhood, entirely.

This of course has noting to do with the debate on whether there is a trichotomy or dichotomy. And it certainly isn't evidence that mankind is a multi-cotomy (again, made that up).

Peace be to you brother.

 

[Paleouss]

The corollary is that when the human spirit and human soul go our walking, they never part company.

Geetings again Van,

I agree with your statement above if you intend to claim there are both a human spirit AND a human soul and then say that the human spirit and the human soul are in 'oneness' and can only be logically divided but not physically divided (except by God).

Thus the concept of our "soul" being the core characteristics and attributes of our human spirit is never challenged in scripture.

I'm not following this. Sorry. Maybe I'm a little slow today.

Peace to you.

 

[Van]

Greetings again Van. Glad to hear from you. Hope you are having a great weekend.

Thank you.

You had me hopeful there for a second (wink).

Could you provide verses for this please?

That sounds like being "born again"or being made "anew" or "alive". Further, it sounds like sanctification. I don't see how this counters my assertion that the Bible shows us that we are a trichotomy. All this, what you wrote, goes perfectly well with what I said (as an added).

You go on to give me a verse, Matt 22:37, that doesn't seem to address the debate between whether mankind is a trichotomy (body, spirit, soul) or dichotomy (body, soul). Unless you are trying to say that mankind is a multi-chotomy of some kind (made up that word). I will make four assertion and then address your heart, soul, mind, verse.

1. Mankind is made up of an inner self and an outer self (2Cor 4:16).
2. The spirit of man is the principle of life.
3. The soul of man is the principle of personhood.
4. The spirit of man and the soul of man is caught up in oneness and can only be logically divided (but God can divide spirit from soul).

Now to address your verse and the topic of heart, mind, and soul.

1. Within the Hebrew culture there was what is called synonymous parallelism. Synonymous parallelism can be found in many examples of Hebrew poetry and within Hebrew literature. What it does that relates to our topic is communicate the same idea in two or more lines but uses different words (two or three words being very common).

In the case of your offered verse (Matthew 22:37), the three words that are similar are "heart", "soul", and "mind". The use of all three, and whatever their commonality was to be communicated, is the emphasis the author intended.

Here is your presented verse for reference.


That sounds like being "born again"or being made "anew" or "alive". Further, it sounds like sanctification. I don't see how this counters my assertion that the Bible shows us that we are a trichotomy. All this, what you wrote, goes perfectly well with what I said (as an added).

You go on to give me a verse, Matt 22:37, that doesn't seem to address the debate between whether mankind is a trichotomy (body, spirit, soul) or dichotomy (body, soul). Unless you are trying to say that mankind is a multi-chotomy of some kind (made up that word). I will make four assertion and then address your heart, soul, mind, verse.

1. Mankind is made up of an inner self and an outer self (2Cor 4:16).
2. The spirit of man is the principle of life.
3. The soul of man is the principle of personhood.
4. The spirit of man and the soul of man is caught up in oneness by the creative act and can only be logically divided (but God can divide spirit from soul).

Now to address your verse and the topic of heart, mind, and soul.

1. Within the Hebrew culture there was what is called synonymous parallelism. Synonymous parallelism can be found in many examples of Hebrew poetry and within Hebrew literature (it is littered throughout the Bible). What it does that relates to our topic is communicate the same idea in two or more lines but uses different words (two or three words being very common).

In the case of your offered verse (Matthew 22:37), the three words that are similar are "heart", "soul", and "mind". The use of all three, and whatever their commonality was to be communicated, is the emphasis the author intended.

Here is your presented verse for reference.

Now the question is, what does the author intend to emphasize by using these words and what do they have in common?

To first understand this, it is important to understand what the soul, heart, and mind are within scripture.

Within scripture the soul is the 'principal of personhood' and the heart and mind are of the soul.
This is not to say that the heart is something other than the soul or that the soul is something other than the heart. For our arms are not something other than the body and the body is not something other than the arms. But the arms are of the body and the body consists of its arms. So too, the heart of man is of the soul and the soul consists of its heart (1Chr 22:19). In other words, the soul is the principal of personhood of a self that is both body and soul; and the heart is the seat of that innermost personhood (Prov 4:23 NIV).

The heart (Heb. lēḇ, Gr. kardia) is the seat of the innermost man, for “above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.” (Prov 4:23 NIV). It is the wellspring from which thoughts (Gen 6:5, Luke 1:51, Matt 9:4), questioning (Mar 2:8), doubts (Luke 24:38), desire (Ps 37:4), attitudes (Pro 3:5, 2Chr 19:9, 2Kin 20:3, 1Kin 2:4, Rom 10:10, Rom 10:9), and emotions (1 Sam. 2:1, Deu 28:47, Prov 15:15, 1Sam 1:8) spring forth. The heart is not only the wellspring of emotions and attitudes of the soul but also consists of the mind. For it is said that the “soul chooses” (Job 7:15 NKJV) and the “soul refuses” (Job 6:7 NKJV) just as the heart “devises wicked plans” (Pov 6:18, 16:9, 19:21 NKJV) while the “mind” has many plans (Prov 19:21 ESV).

Now this can be confusing to the mind in trying to understand how it is that the "soul chooses" AND the heart devises plans AND the mind makes plans (seen in the verses above). But for our understanding, the mind then is a function of the heart in which there is intellect, reason, and thoughts. Further, we must not be confused and think that the mind is one thing and the heart is another. But to correctly think that the heart is the seat of the innermost self, the innermost self being the soul, and the mind is a function of that seat. And to say that the mind has two faculties is not to say that there is the heart and then there is the mind that has two powers. But to say that there is the heart, the seat of the soul, and the mind is a function of the heart that has the power to choose, reason, and understand.

Once we understand that the soul, heart, and mind all have something in common, i.e., personhood. Then we can now understand more of what the author of Matt 22:37 intended when he used synonymous parallelism.

The overarching message is... love the Lord with all your personhood, entirely.

This of course has noting to do with the debate on whether there is a trichotomy or dichotomy. And it certainly isn't evidence that mankind is a multi-cotomy (again, made that up).

Peace be to you brother.

1) God forms our human spirit within us. Zechariah 12:1.

2) Developing our core characteristics and attributes refers to our human spirit's maturity process from its creation, and has nothing whatsoever to do with being born anew.

3) I addressed the two verses that "seem" to describe humans as three part, and provided an interpretation that is consistent with a two part person.

4) 2 Corinthians 4:16 refers to our outer person (out physical body) and our inner (our human spirit/soul).

5) Our human spirit/soul gives life to and operates our physical body, when the spirit departs, the body dies.

6) Yes, we agree the soul of our human spirit is our "personhood."

7) Yes, we agree our human spirit and soul are one in essence, non material and non-physical.

8) Yes, we agree, our heart, our heart, soul and mind all share commonality as descriptions of facets of our person.

9) Yes, we agree, the heart and mind reflect the core characteristics and attributes of our spirit/soul.

10) Yes, we agree, the key characteristic of the heart, mind and soul is to fully love God.

11) This of course demonstrates Matthew 22:37 fully supports our two part personhood, our physical body and our non-physical spirit/soul.

 

[Van]

Geetings again Van,

I agree with your statement above if you intend to claim there are both a human spirit AND a human soul and then say that the human spirit and the human soul are in 'oneness' and can only be logically divided but not physically divided (except by God).

I'm not following this. Sorry. Maybe I'm a little slow today.

 

[Paleouss]

1) God forms our human spirit within us. Zechariah 12:1.

2) Developing our core characteristics and attributes refers to our human spirit's maturity process from its creation, and has nothing whatsoever to do with being born anew.

Greetings Van. A wonderful Sunday. All glory and honor to our Lord.

Thank you for your clarification's. It helps to see where we agree and disagree.
Ah, I see your use of the word 'forms' now.

I'm not sure of the full extent of your use of the word "forms" and its connection with core characteristics and attributes. So I'll wing it.

Zechariah 12:1 is specifically about creation (not about development or maturation if this is what you are implying). Zech 12:1 specifically says, “Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens” (a creational Genesis reference). And then specifically says, “lays the foundation of the earth” (another initial creational Genesis reference). And then after setting the theme by two references to initial creation, the verse adds one more initial creation reference by saying, “and forms the spirit of man within him”.

This is yet another example of synonymous parallelism, i.e., three words or concepts that have something in common. In this case the commonality is God created all in reference to the initial creation.

So being consistent with context, the part that says “forms the spirit of man within him” is referring to the creation of Adam account. For the context is ‘initial creation’ as I have just shown. Therefore, when it says “forms” it is not reasonable to assume it means some kind of characteristics or maturation, if this is what you mean, but means literally the Genesis 2:7 account. In which God “formed” the inner man.

Now that we have established that context demands the creation account in Zechariah 12:1. It is interesting to see that Zech 12:1 says that it (A) “forms” (B) “the spirit of man” (C) “within him”. The interesting part is that it is specifically talking about the inner part of Adam (not the outer or body), for it says “within him”. This means that the inner part of man, at creation of Adam, was “formed”, not simply given. As in, that which consists of the inner man was “formed” from dust and breath and out of that creative act, came what is the inner man. (See my OP for the Genesis 2:7 creation formula.

I'll address any other points in another post.

All peace and love to you brother.

 

[Paleouss]

3) I addressed the two verses that "seem" to describe humans as three part, and provided an interpretation that is consistent with a two part person.

Sorry Van. I must have missed this. I addressed Matt 22:37. So I'm guessing you mean...looking...1Thes 5:23.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, 1Thessalonians 5:23 is simply another example of synonymous parallelism. The attempt at inferring all that information into the text like you did, seems unnecessary and forced. Saying the author meant this, when saying spirit, and means that, when saying soul.

The author is simply using synonymous parallelism and conveying the message that God sanctifies the ‘whole person’, period. That is what the three words have in common, they are a list of the whole person. I don’t think there is any need for any exegetical gymnastics here. The verse appears very straight forward and is consistent with the Hebrew practice of using synonymous parallelism.

Peace and hope to us all in Christ Jesus

 

[Paleouss]

6) Yes, we agree the soul of our human spirit is our "personhood."

Here, we actually do not agree (kinda).

1). I agree that the body, soul, and spirit are one person. In the broad sense, one personhood.
2). I assert that the spirit of man and the soul of man are caught up in oneness. Not that they are the same thing.
3). However, within the Biblical text the soul of man is specifically referring to my personhood (or your personhood) as distinct from God. And the spirit of man, when used within the Biblical text, is referring to giving life to man OR relationship or ownership to God. There is a consistent theme.

In other words, within the biblical text the soul and spirit can be delineated out and roles can be recognized as consistent. Just like the roles of the Trinity. Here is where the Trichotomist would brings up Hebrews 4:12.

(Heb 4:12 NKJV) 12 For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I have seen some hermeneutical gymnastics with this verse as well. Here in Hebrews 4:12, Paul would seem to clearly assert that the word of God is powerful. Powerful enough to even divide that which is caught up in oneness within mankind (that which God "formed" at creation). That being the division of the soul and spirit.

It would appear that the author of Hebrews 4:12, to avoid such confusion as thinking the soul and spirit are the same thing, provided a short analogy. That is, the “soul” is to “joints” as the “spirit” is to “marrow". This analogy would appear to have no other purpose, for “joints” and “marrow” have nothing to do with “thoughts and intentions of the heart” in and of themselves. I can further delineate that analogy Paul intended if needed.


Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

[Van]

Here, we actually do not agree (kinda).

Sir, I think further discussion is pointless. I say "A" and you respond as if I said "B."

For example You said "Ah, I see your use of the word 'forms' now.." This suggests I had changed what I said. However I said God formed our human spirit within us.

Next I say this :"Developing our core characteristics and attributes refers to our human spirit's maturity process from its creation, and has nothing whatsoever to do with being born anew." addressing your suggestion. But you then suggest I am again claiming God's action.

Pointless to continue...

Human Persons are made up of two parts, our physical, material body and our non-physical spiritual spirit/soul. The spirit/soul always operates as one entity in scripture.

 

[Paleouss]

Sir, I think further discussion is pointless. I say "A" and you respond as if I said "B."

I apologize Van. I must be confused. I hope you have a blessed Sunday.