Apostasy

[Amy.G]

Have you ever seen anyone depart from the faith? Someone that you know was saved because you saw the change and the fruit?

Do you believe a person can decide they don't believe in God after all and the Bible is only a man made book?


I have always thought this was impossible for a born again Christian, but I have seen it with my own eyes recently and I don't know what to think. It is very upsetting. :tear:

 

[Zenas]

I have seen this several times, most recently in a member of my family and it is very distressing.

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anyone in your family?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Do you believe a person can decide they don't believe in God after all and the Bible is only a man made book?

Amy consider what this verse says, John 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Also Mathew 24:24.

 

[Amy.G]

Anyone in your family?

Yes. My husband.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes. My husband.

OK, well speaking strictly from a personal position, I once became very despondent & depressed over the loss of two loved ones but I then pulled out of it thanks by reading Scripture like Job & also Martyn Lloyd-Jones book "Spiritual Depression" ....that is the extent of my experience & the questioning was due to some personal trauma.

 

[Amy.G]

OK, well speaking strictly from a personal position, I once became very despondent & depressed over the loss of two loved ones but I then pulled out of it thanks by reading Scripture like Job & also Martyn Lloyd-Jones book "Spiritual Depression" ....that is the extent of my experience & the questioning was due to some personal trauma.

He has had personal trauma. We both have. We have had to sell our home for practically nothing just to pay the mortgage on our business. We are now facing bankruptcy on the business.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes. My husband.

Amy I am sorry to hear all this. It could be more of a short term thing due to anger. May God give you both peace. Phil 4:4-8

 

[Amy.G]

Amy I am sorry to hear all this. It could be more of a short term thing due to anger. May God give you both peace. Phil 4:4-8

I hope so. Thank you.

 

[annsni]

I have seen those who CLAIM to be a believer - but walked away from the Holy One way too easily.

 

[annsni]

He has had personal trauma. We both have. We have had to sell our home for practically nothing just to pay the mortgage on our business. We are now facing bankruptcy on the business.

Keep praying for him. There are times we become the prodigal and need to come home and God is waiting patiently. I know my husband has had struggles in the past and I needed to stay on my knees for him. ((HUGS))

 

[Dr. Walter]

Have you ever seen anyone depart from the faith? Someone that you know was saved because you saw the change and the fruit?

Do you believe a person can decide they don't believe in God after all and the Bible is only a man made book?


I have always thought this was impossible for a born again Christian, but I have seen it with my own eyes recently and I don't know what to think. It is very upsetting. :tear:

Amy, Since I don't know you or what faith your husband embraced and then departed from, may I ask you did he embrace justification by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone without works, and then manifest spiritual fruit in his life - peace, joy, love, longsuffering, etc. and then deny that Christ is the savior, deny salvation is by grace OR did he simply believe he became lost? What denomination was he identified with at the time of his conversion?

 

[J.D.]

Yes. My husband.

Amy, it broke my heart to read this. You are so spiritual and strong in scripture, one would think that there's no way your husband could go astray. But I believe that God will bring him back. Let's pray together to that end. Remember, as long as God is in control, there's always hope.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Have you ever seen anyone depart from the faith? Someone that you know was saved because you saw the change and the fruit?

Do you believe a person can decide they don't believe in God after all and the Bible is only a man made book?


I have always thought this was impossible for a born again Christian, but I have seen it with my own eyes recently and I don't know what to think. It is very upsetting. :tear:

Yes, I've seen it as well. I was very involved in a bible fellowship in the Military. Saw great guys repent and lived for Jesus proclaiming his name everywhere. A few years later these men divorsed their wives. Stopped fellowshiping. And pretty much lived their lives apart from Christ. To the extent that they've followed budhism or became atheist. I understand the ones who admitted to just leaving Jesus all together. The ones that get me are the ones that believed it was the Lord that wanted them to divorse their wife (a Christian wife at that!) and stop fellowshiping with others at church. Their lives are indistinguishable from the world. But they insist they are still christian and worship God in their own way and God is cool with it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

With enough trauma, the heart either brakes or can turn to stone. Questions of course as to where God is in all this are normal however you guys still have your health, nobody has died & you can recover no matter how humiliating & depressing the situation is. Im not trying to be Pollyanna but sometimes this misfortune can be a great character builder but the man is hurt & wounded. I would encourage reading Job in scriptures.

Also work on his self esteem that after losses might well be flagging. Many in this economy have lost more than you guys & some have fallen into despair & depression. Im certain the suicide rate has gone way up, more people are drinking & taking drugs, getting divorces etc. And then there are those who absolutely refuse to be defeated, they pick themselves up by their boot straps. These resilient people use misfortune as a means to educate & elevate themselves. I believe it's a matter of choice & if you want to add religion into the equation, then I thank & bless Him for this liberty of choice, without it we would all be devastated.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I read the rest of the posts. I know a couple where it was the wife who cheated on her husband knowing full well it was in rebellion to God. She confided that she understood it and felt guilty for it and realize she lost something special with her husband whom she seperated with. That was the most confusing thing I've encountered. She spiritually was acting like a willful child and didn't have the distress you or your husband had and still behaved contrary to God. Unfortuantely for her, her life is in shambles.

As for you and your situation. I can't say I understand or know what you or your husband is going through. All I can say is that the Lord is faithful to those that love him. He will neither leave you nor forsake you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thinkingstuff.....yea I dont get that, a loving Christian supportive spouse getting turned around on. Perhaps there was more going on, but normally a supportive spouse is a positive, especially if the wounded spouse is suffering any loss.

Amy, I also like James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promises to those who love him.

 

[Dr. Walter]

True children of God are capable of adultery and murder as seen in David. But the Biblical explanation for those who turn "Anti-Christ" is that they never had a true inner birth experience but merely went through external reformation (1 Jn. 2:18-19).

We can only see the EXTERNAL and are no fit judges of the INTERNAL. 1 John 2:19 is God's judgement upon the INTERNAL of such that we EXTERNALLY observe. I will take God's word over human guess work.

 

[Amy.G]

Thank you all so much. Your words are a blessing.

I know that a person can make a false profession and play the church game, but that isn't what I saw when my husband professed Christ. He did the same thing that I did and went around telling people that he had been saved and he even said that he had "met Jesus". He had a wonderful testimony. It's hard to believe that it wasn't real.

Maybe he is just angry at God and his feelings are confused, but the things he says are very disturbing. Things like, God just puts us on this earth to suffer then we die and get judged and maybe we'll go to heaven.
One thing he has always had a problem with is the knowledge that he will go to heaven. I have told him countless times that God keeps His promises and if we put our faith in Jesus we can know that we are heaven bound. He was raised Catholic and was taught that we have to be "good" to go to heaven. I think he has struggled with that for years.

I have never seen a person turn from God this way. It's scary and my own beliefs are being tested. Not my faith in God, but my beliefs about eternal security. No, even that doesn't sound right. I guess what I'm trying to say is, after seeing my husband make this turn around, I'm beginning to think that a person can forfeit their salvation. I never thought that was possible until now. I don't believe for one second that God abandons us, but I am seeing how we can sure abandon Him.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

True children of God are capable of adultery and murder as seen in David. But the Biblical explanation for those who turn "Anti-Christ" is that they never had a true inner birth experience but merely went through external reformation (1 Jn. 2:18-19).

We can only see the EXTERNAL and are no fit judges of the INTERNAL. 1 John 2:19 is God's judgement upon the INTERNAL of such that we EXTERNALLY observe. I will take God's word over human guess work.

Dr. Walter. What is the consequence of regenerate Christians like David who commit murder and adultery but unlike David do not repent of it? What happens in the midst of their murder or adultery they die? What then?