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Apostates and Heretics behind the texts underlying modern translations

Martin Marprelate

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Most of your modern translations such as the NASB, NIV and others are based on the United Bible Societies Greek text or the Nestle Aland text, I dont trust the editors of these texts such as Bruce Metzger, Kurt and Barbara Aland, or Eberhard Nestle to decide what the accurate and best readings are of the New Testament considering that they are heretics and apostates. For example Metzger questions that Peter even wrote the epistles that bear his Name

“KURT ALAND denied the verbal inspiration of the Bible and wanted to see all denominations united into one “body” by the acceptance of a new ecumenical canon of Scripture which would take into account the Catholic apocryphal books (The Problem of the New Testament Canon, pp. 6,7,30-33). “

Kurt Aland also doubted the canonicity of several New Testament Books.

Not the kind of guy I want editing the Greek text behind my bible translation.

See page 5 and following of this link http://www.bibelgriechisch.info/Aland.pdf
Eberhard Nestle (1851-1913)

“Nestle, of the popular Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (nearly 30 different editions now), rejected the infallibility of the Bible, and believed it was no more than a normal piece of literature. He claimed that authors of the New Testament never expected their writings to be read by others let alone be taken as the authoritative word of God.”

Kurt and Barbara Aland

“Partner with Eberhard Nestle (above), he and his wife are also contributors the UBS. Aland does not believe in verbal inspiration of the Bible, and that the Old Testament and the gospels are full of myths that were not inspired by God but merely a naturalistic process. Kurt Aland does not believe that the canon of Scripture is complete or settled.”

The Heretics Behind Modern Bible Versions Supported By James White


The people behind modern textual criticism are largely apostate heretics and the evangelicals involved are piggy backing off of unbelieving scholarship.

Textual Criticism Drawn From the Wells of Infidelity
Whilst I understand and appreciate your point, it falls to the ground somewhat when you consider men like B.B. Warfield and the more modern guys like Carson, Fee and White. I am not a great fan of Carson and even less am I am fan of Fee, but it can't be denied that they are Bible-believers.

I do, however, agree with the point that secular methods of Textual Criticism are not fitting for the word of God. I say that as one who studied T.C., albeit briefly, as an unconverted youngster.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Whilst I understand and appreciate your point, it falls to the ground somewhat when you consider men like B.B. Warfield and the more modern guys like Carson, Fee and White. I am not a great fan of Carson and even less am I am fan of Fee, but it can't be denied that they are Bible-believers.

I do, however, agree with the point that secular methods of Textual Criticism are not fitting for the word of God. I say that as one who studied T.C., albeit briefly, as an unconverted youngster.
The main point that he does not seem to admit is that the differences between the TR/Bzt/Majority/Critical Greek texts do not affect ANY areas of doctrines, so a infallible English translation can and has been done off any of those sources!

I see the translation theory as being more important than the textual sources used, as much prefer either the nas/Nkjv to the Niv....
 

Jordan Kurecki

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Site Supporter
Whilst I understand and appreciate your point, it falls to the ground somewhat when you consider men like B.B. Warfield and the more modern guys like Carson, Fee and White. I am not a great fan of Carson and even less am I am fan of Fee, but it can't be denied that they are Bible-believers.

I do, however, agree with the point that secular methods of Textual Criticism are not fitting for the word of God. I say that as one who studied T.C., albeit briefly, as an unconverted youngster.
Yes but if you study these people you will see that they piggyback off of the schola
Tyhe maint point that he does not seem to admit is that the differences between the TR/Bzt/Majority/Critical Greek texts do not affect ANY areas of doctrines, so a infallible Englsih translation can and has been done off any of those sources!
false. They impact the teachings and doctrines of many specific verses. If the changes affect the meaning of 1 verse, then that means a change of doctrine, for all scripture is profitable for doctrine.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes but if you study these people you will see that they piggyback off of the schola

false. They impact the teachings and doctrines of many specific verses. If the changes affect the meaning of 1 verse, then that means a change of doctrine, for all scripture is profitable for doctrine.
You are making the assumption that the TR is the exact copy of the originals when you make that statement!
 

Rob_BW

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Site Supporter
Apples and oranges in my opinion.

Your talking about moral failures vs blatant heresies and apostasy in regard to bibliology

That would be like trusting Richard Dawkins on the existence of God.
Ah, so being wrong on ecclesiology, baptism, and being an accessory to murder gets a pass. Gotcha.
 

Yeshua1

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Site Supporter
I am reminded of a person who was incensed that in the Christian School the first graders were not learning "Christian phonics."

The teacher responded, "How is the "T" pronounced differently as a Christian than that of a non-christian?"

Ultimately, a translation may certainly be marginalized when documentation of biased translation is produced.

Personally, I don't use the NIV except in rare occasions. It drifts (imo) too far away from the original intention. But that is purely subjective and I really would rather use the NASB or the ESV for serious study and then compare the work with the KJV. I have never had a conflicting presentation of the truth when using those three either in combination or as stand alone.

If one wants the most serious study, they will use multiple sources (translations) and especially those which retain a formal translation over someone attempting to style the translation work into some presentation that is perhaps agenda driven.

But frankly, it is all of very little consequence.

The typical "christian" doesn't even open their Bible in typical week weakly worship much less daily feast at the table set before them by the Word.
Each good translation has its place, and using the formal ones such as the Nas/Nkjv/Kjv for serious studying, and also the Esv/Csb/Niv for reading for the flow of the text is valid and good.
 

SovereignGrace

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Site Supporter
Welp, those English-speaking folk pre-1611 are damned to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh wait, we've been down that road a time or two...
 

Jordan Kurecki

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Welp, those English-speaking folk pre-1611 are damned to hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh wait, we've been down that road a time or two...
Such a strawman. I nor any KJO person I know believes one has to use the KJV to be saved. Stop with this outlandish remark.
 

Jordan Kurecki

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I am glad that you do not, but there are many in your camp who actually do!
What you are referring to is a Ruckmanite, which is not in “my camp”.

I agree with David Cloud

“If “King James Only” defines one who believes that God has given infallible Scripture in the original Greek and Hebrew writings and that He has preserved that in the Hebrew Masoretic and Greek Received Text and that we have a beautiful translation of it in the English language in the Authorized Version, call me “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes modern textual criticism is heresy, call me “King James Only.” Prior to the Internet era, I spent hundreds of dollars to obtain the writings of the men who have been at the forefront of developing the theories underlying modern textual criticism, and I have read them. They are not dependable. They refuse to approach the Bible text from a position of faith in divine preservation. Most of them are out-and-out heretics, and I refuse to lean upon their scholarship. I am convinced they do not have the spiritual discernment necessary to know where the inspired, preserved Word of God is located today.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that God has preserved the Scripture in its common use among apostolic churches through the fulfillment of the Great Commission and that He guided the Reformation editors and translators in their choice of the Received Text and that we don’t have to start all over today in an to attempt to find the preserved text of Scripture, call me “King James Only.” The theories of modern textual criticism all revolve around the idea that the pure text of Scripture was not preserved in the Reformation text but that the Reformation editors, because of their alleged ignorance and or lack of resources, rejected the best text and chose, instead, an inferior one. In fact, modern textual criticism is predicated upon the theory that the best text of the New Testament (the Egyptian or Alexandrian) was rejected in the earliest centuries and was replaced with a corrupt recension that was created through the conflation of various manuscript readings (the Byzantine or Traditional text) and that the corrupt text became the dominant text throughout most of church history (for 1,500 years) until the best text was rediscovered in the 19th century. You are free to accept such views if it suits you. I, for one, believe it is absolute nonsense.

Similarly, if “King James Only” defines one who rejects the theory that the “preserved” Word of God was hidden away in the Pope’s library and in a weird Greek Orthodox monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai (a monastery which has a room full of the skulls of dead monks) for hundreds of years, call me “King James Only.”

ON THE OTHER HAND, I WILL NOT ACCEPT THE LABEL OF “KING JAMES ONLY” IF IT MEANS THE FOLLOWING:

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the KJV was given byinspiration, I am not “King James Only.” The authority of the King James Bible is the product of preservation, not inspiration. The term “inspiration” refers to the original giving of the Scripture through holy men of old (2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:20-21). At the same time, I agree with the Pulpit Commentary when it says, “We must guard against such narrow, mechanical views of inspiration as would confine it to the Hebrew and Greek words in which it was written, so that one who reads a good translation would not have ‘the words of the Lord.’” To say that the King James Bible is the inspired Word of God in the English language because it is an accurate translation of the preserved Hebrew and Greek is not the same as saying that it was given by inspiration.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes the English KJV is superior to the Hebrew and Greek texts upon which it was based, I am not “King James Only.” In fact, I believe such an idea is pure nonsense, as it would mean the pure and preserved Word of God did not exist before 1611.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the King James Bible is advanced revelation over the Hebrew and Greek texts that God gave through inspiration to holy men of old, I am not “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that we do not need to study Greek and Hebrew today or that it is not important to use lexicons and dictionaries, I am not “King James Only.” God’s people should learn Greek and Hebrew, if possible, and use (with caution and wisdom) study tools. When the Bible says that “holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost,” we know that the words they spake were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words. But foundational to the study of the biblical languages is a thorough understanding of the textual issue. We must study the right Greek and Hebrew, and we must also be careful of original language study tools, because many of them were produced from a rationalistic perspective and with great bias against the God-blessed Received Text.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes the preserved Word of God is available only perfectly in English, I am not “King James Only.” The Masoretic Hebrew Old Testament and Greek Received New Testament translated correctly into any language is the preserved Word of God in that language, whether it is German, Spanish, French, Korean, or Nepali.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that translations in other languages should be based on English rather than (when possible) Greek and Hebrew, I am not “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that a person can only be saved through the King James Bible, I am not“King James Only.” It is the gospel of Jesus Christ that is the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16), and even a Bible that is textually corrupt contains the gospel.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the King James Bible’s antiquated language is holy or who believes the KJV could never again be updated, I am not “King James Only.” I doubt the KJV will ever be replaced in this apostate age, but to say that it is wrong to update the language again after the fashion of the several updates it has undergone since 1611 is not reasonable. Having dealt extensively with people who speak English as a second or third language, I am very sympathetic to the very real antiquation problem in the King James Bible. At the same time, I am not going to trade an excellent Bible with a few problems due to old language for a Bible filled with error due to a corrupt text and/or a corrupt translation methodology (e.g., dynamic equivalency).

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that he has the authority to call those who disagree with him silly asses, morons, and jacklegs, and to treat them as if they were fools because they refuse to follow his (or her) peculiar views, or if it defines one who threatens to sue those who challenge him (or her), I am not “King James Only.”
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What you are referring to is a Ruckmanite, which is not in “my camp”.

I agree with David Cloud

“If “King James Only” defines one who believes that God has given infallible Scripture in the original Greek and Hebrew writings and that He has preserved that in the Hebrew Masoretic and Greek Received Text and that we have a beautiful translation of it in the English language in the Authorized Version, call me “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes modern textual criticism is heresy, call me “King James Only.” Prior to the Internet era, I spent hundreds of dollars to obtain the writings of the men who have been at the forefront of developing the theories underlying modern textual criticism, and I have read them. They are not dependable. They refuse to approach the Bible text from a position of faith in divine preservation. Most of them are out-and-out heretics, and I refuse to lean upon their scholarship. I am convinced they do not have the spiritual discernment necessary to know where the inspired, preserved Word of God is located today.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that God has preserved the Scripture in its common use among apostolic churches through the fulfillment of the Great Commission and that He guided the Reformation editors and translators in their choice of the Received Text and that we don’t have to start all over today in an to attempt to find the preserved text of Scripture, call me “King James Only.” The theories of modern textual criticism all revolve around the idea that the pure text of Scripture was not preserved in the Reformation text but that the Reformation editors, because of their alleged ignorance and or lack of resources, rejected the best text and chose, instead, an inferior one. In fact, modern textual criticism is predicated upon the theory that the best text of the New Testament (the Egyptian or Alexandrian) was rejected in the earliest centuries and was replaced with a corrupt recension that was created through the conflation of various manuscript readings (the Byzantine or Traditional text) and that the corrupt text became the dominant text throughout most of church history (for 1,500 years) until the best text was rediscovered in the 19th century. You are free to accept such views if it suits you. I, for one, believe it is absolute nonsense.

Similarly, if “King James Only” defines one who rejects the theory that the “preserved” Word of God was hidden away in the Pope’s library and in a weird Greek Orthodox monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai (a monastery which has a room full of the skulls of dead monks) for hundreds of years, call me “King James Only.”

ON THE OTHER HAND, I WILL NOT ACCEPT THE LABEL OF “KING JAMES ONLY” IF IT MEANS THE FOLLOWING:

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the KJV was given byinspiration, I am not “King James Only.” The authority of the King James Bible is the product of preservation, not inspiration. The term “inspiration” refers to the original giving of the Scripture through holy men of old (2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:20-21). At the same time, I agree with the Pulpit Commentary when it says, “We must guard against such narrow, mechanical views of inspiration as would confine it to the Hebrew and Greek words in which it was written, so that one who reads a good translation would not have ‘the words of the Lord.’” To say that the King James Bible is the inspired Word of God in the English language because it is an accurate translation of the preserved Hebrew and Greek is not the same as saying that it was given by inspiration.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes the English KJV is superior to the Hebrew and Greek texts upon which it was based, I am not “King James Only.” In fact, I believe such an idea is pure nonsense, as it would mean the pure and preserved Word of God did not exist before 1611.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the King James Bible is advanced revelation over the Hebrew and Greek texts that God gave through inspiration to holy men of old, I am not “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that we do not need to study Greek and Hebrew today or that it is not important to use lexicons and dictionaries, I am not “King James Only.” God’s people should learn Greek and Hebrew, if possible, and use (with caution and wisdom) study tools. When the Bible says that “holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost,” we know that the words they spake were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words. But foundational to the study of the biblical languages is a thorough understanding of the textual issue. We must study the right Greek and Hebrew, and we must also be careful of original language study tools, because many of them were produced from a rationalistic perspective and with great bias against the God-blessed Received Text.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes the preserved Word of God is available only perfectly in English, I am not “King James Only.” The Masoretic Hebrew Old Testament and Greek Received New Testament translated correctly into any language is the preserved Word of God in that language, whether it is German, Spanish, French, Korean, or Nepali.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that translations in other languages should be based on English rather than (when possible) Greek and Hebrew, I am not “King James Only.”

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that a person can only be saved through the King James Bible, I am not“King James Only.” It is the gospel of Jesus Christ that is the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16), and even a Bible that is textually corrupt contains the gospel.

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that the King James Bible’s antiquated language is holy or who believes the KJV could never again be updated, I am not “King James Only.” I doubt the KJV will ever be replaced in this apostate age, but to say that it is wrong to update the language again after the fashion of the several updates it has undergone since 1611 is not reasonable. Having dealt extensively with people who speak English as a second or third language, I am very sympathetic to the very real antiquation problem in the King James Bible. At the same time, I am not going to trade an excellent Bible with a few problems due to old language for a Bible filled with error due to a corrupt text and/or a corrupt translation methodology (e.g., dynamic equivalency).

If “King James Only” defines one who believes that he has the authority to call those who disagree with him silly asses, morons, and jacklegs, and to treat them as if they were fools because they refuse to follow his (or her) peculiar views, or if it defines one who threatens to sue those who challenge him (or her), I am not “King James Only.”
Did God still have His written word in use before the 1611 Kjv?
 

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did God still have His written word in use before the 1611 Kjv?
You clearly are not reading my posts otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this question. I made it clear when I quoted David Cloud.

However to answer your question, the written word of God prior to 1611 was contained in the Masoretic Text and Textus Receptus and all other faithful translations from those texts into other languages.

It’s becoming clear to me that the folks on here that are not KJO have run into a lot of nutty and bizarre argumentation for KJO.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You clearly are not reading my posts otherwise you wouldn’t be asking this question. I made it clear when I quoted David Cloud.

However to answer your question, the written word of God prior to 1611 was contained in the Masoretic Text and Textus Receptus and all other faithful translations from those texts into other languages.

It’s becoming clear to me that the folks on here that are not KJO have run into a lot of nutty and bizarre argumentation for KJO.
Were there English translation that were the word of God before the 1611 Kjv? was the Vulgate?
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Such a strawman. I nor any KJO person I know believes one has to use the KJV to be saved. Stop with this outlandish remark.

Well, a KJVO on another site said he was ‘saved’ reading the NIV, but not born again until he read the KJV.

This translation needs shelved.
 
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