Apostles baptized?

Dallas, I need to jump in and clarify in regards to the Lord's Supper. I don't think that the disciples were lost at the table. All I am saying is that John's baptism was not for the purpose of the church. John made it clear that he came to prepare a way.

Baptism is about identification. That is always its purpose. Jews were "baptized" into Moses. Jews were "baptized" with the baptism of John. The church is "baptized" into the body of Christ.

 

I agree with you that the Apostles were saved prior to pentecost and prior to the crucifixion. I also agree that baptism is about identification. This is why Christ received the baptism of John. To identify with the church. The manifestation in the flesh identified Him as the daysman, the kinsman redeemer of man, the baptism identified him with the church.

IMHO, changing the baptism of John, changes this identification.

Bro. Dallas

 

Dallas, it doesn't say that though. It doesn't even hint at it. One must start with the presupposition that Landmarkers do and then work backwards.

Christ was identifying with people. He was about to being his obedience for the ministry of High Priest (Heb. 5). He had to identify with them. That is why he was baptized.

 

This is what I said. When does the Bible say Christ changed the baptism of John? Is it not a presupposition that he did?

He did not, the Bible does say that Christ baptized not, but His disciples, nowhere does it say that they baptized under a separate baptism that Christ administered to them.

Part of the 'preparing' of the way done by John is the baptism of the material of the church that Christ called out.

Baptism is not said in scripture to be changed by either Christ nor the Apostles.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Show me one place that says John came to prepare the church or even the way of the church.

As I said, someone has to believe that the church in strictly a visible assembly before Pentecost to accept this.

It is not the product of exegesis. It is the product of a logical conclusion based on certain ideas.

 

Brother,

The church was established by Christ from out of those who received John's baptism. Even the founder of the church himself received John's baptism. That this 'group' was the church is shown by the assembly of themselves, by the fact that they had beleiver's baptism (they believed the message of John and repented; that message that the one to come was Christ); they had the Supper and held it while assembled together, they had a role of 120 prior to the baptism of the Spirit; it is this body that Christ organized and it is this body that received the baptism of the Spirit.

Can you show me where that Christ changed the baptism of John?

Bro. Dallas

 

Look very carefully at these verses.

John 1:25-27

They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
John answered them, "I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know,
even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."

Parallel passage

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, saying, "I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

John baptized with water. Christ baptized with the Holy Spirit. John says that his baptism was for then. One would come though that would have a different baptism.

On Pentecost, Christ did exactly as he said he would in Acts 1:5.

 

Christ baptized the church with the Holy Spirit, but the passages you list do not say that Christ changed John's baptism, only that He would baptize with the Spirit. This was accomplished on the day of Pentecost, but it was accomplished on the assembled church.

I will add, the Scripture says nowhere that the Apostles were 'rebaptized'. As is the focus of the initial post here.

Brother, we are not going to convince each other of anything. I will give you the last word. I do this to show only that I am not trying to Lord over anyone's opinion. All I know is what I believe to be truth, if I speak anything but that then I am IMHO, an unfaithful servant.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

With all due respect Bro. Murphy,

If the church was not established until the day of pentecost, then the church did not receive the great commission and the commission was only for the apostles, thus it has been fulfilled.

This means that we are laboring to take the sound of the Gospel into every nation when there were Jews of every nation present at pentecost, these obviously would have carried the sound of the Gospel back to their respective nation.

I believe that believer's baptism is the same as that of John, did John ever point anyone coming to him or hearing his preaching anywhere but to Christ?

BTW, how did the great commission change the baptism of John?
Bro. Dallas

 

I figured that is how you thought the baptism was changed.

Yet, at the baptism of Christ the presence of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is testified to in scripture, how is it then that John's Baptism is not sanctioned as being in the name of the Godhead and by the blessing of the Trinity?

Bro. Dallas

 

and the Bible states this?? Odd how it is quickly said that landmarkism speaks where the Bible is silent, yet it is overlooked from the other side...isn't it.

I showed you where I believe from scripture that the baptism of John had the blessing of the Godhead, it was submitted to by the Son, ordained by the Father, and witnessed by the Spirit. You are right, if this is not enough to show, then I have no more I can say.

Thanks for the discussion.

God Bless All.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Brethren,

IMHO, this is the same question Jesus discussed with the Pharisees

Matthew 21:25  The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

Mark 11:30  The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

Luke 20:4  The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Murph, I mean this in love, please learn the quote function here. Your posts are not the easiest to follow.

 

I take my life into my own hands to be made fun of becaues I know I do not have all the learning of those of you who have studies the great teachers and received your PhD's and all but I am just a simple Bible Student and know no better that to take the Bible for it Word sake.

Here are just a few of my thoughts about this baptism thing.

Matt 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
KJV

Christ is the one who started and continues to build the local church today.

1 Cor. 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles , secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
KJV

We are told here in this passage that apostles were the first to be set in the church. We find this taking place in the book of Luke.

Luke 6:12-13 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles ;
KJV

I can not find any where prior to this happening where there was any differnt baptism other than John's baptism.

It is my firm belief that the church started at some point around this time.

John 20:19-22 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: KJV

There are two important things to see this passage of scripture. First, all of the “about an hundred and twenty” (taken from Acts 1)disciples were present when Jesus appeared in the midst of them. Second, they received the Holy Ghost prior to the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. KJV

The day of Pentecost was not the start of the church, but a day of great witnessing for the church. Three thousand souls were added; the context is the church was already in place.

Now, please excuse my long response, I do not see any place in the scripture prior to Pentecost where John's baptism was changed, but I do see the starting of the church and direction by the Lord given to this church.

Also if what I have posted does not belong I am sorry as I felt to make my point all was needed.

Richard