Applying Christ blood to recent sin

[James_Newman]

Well, I hope you know that's not what I'm saying. There's a huge gap between "not having to care" and "going to hell for 1,000 years".

There are some who believe in the accountability of the believer at the judgment seat who shy away from hell. What in your view is the danger to a believer who appears at the JSOC with unconfessed/unforgiven sins?

 

[npetreley]

There are some who believe in the accountability of the believer at the judgment seat who shy away from hell. What in your view is the danger to a believer who appears at the JSOC with unconfessed/unforgiven sins?

That question is based on a premise to which I do not subscribe. There is no answer in my view.

 

[npetreley]

Christ judges our works whether good or bad. We are rewarded whether we have done good or whether we have done bad. Those are Biblical facts. As to how Christ determines who gets to rule and reign with Him I don't know the full measure of how that is determined. I don't know if that is a balance if the good outweighs the bad you good or vice versa your bad. I just simply don't know. To my knowledge Scripture doesn't tell us.

So you are asking for something that Scripture is silent on and then you slam me because Scripture itself doesn't answer your question.

That's because you've added to scripture, and then you avoid your additions whenever you're pinned down on it. Look at your answer above. Where does it say anything about 1,000 years in hell? Nowhere! Why? Because that's the touchy subject, and it has no basis in scripture. Scripture never says that some of the "bad" for which you are judged will send you to hell for 1,000 years. So when you are pinned down on the threshhold of "bad" required to end up in hell (and not just with lesser rewards), you come up empty. Technically, you MUST come up empty. This is man-made doctrine and has no scriptural support for how it works.

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[James_Newman]

That question is based on a premise to which I do not subscribe. There is no answer in my view.

Then your view is deficient, in my view. There is no premise, other than that we will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. Surely, you must believe this? If Christ told us that God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others, then there must be a reason He warned us of this fact. What is it?

 

[James_Newman]

That's because you've added to scripture, and then you avoid your additions whenever you're pinned down on it. Look at your answer above. Where does it say anything about 1,000 years in hell? Nowhere! Why? Because that's the touchy subject, and it has no basis in scripture. Scripture never says that some of the "bad" for which you are judged will send you to hell for 1,000 years. So when you are pinned down on the threshhold of "bad" required to end up in hell (and not just with lesser rewards), you come up empty. Technically, you MUST come up empty. This is man-made doctrine and has no scriptural support for how it works.

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Christ answered this question.
Matthew 5:19-20
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[npetreley]

Christ answered this question.
Matthew 5:19-20
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No, He didn't. The first part (verse 19) talks about being least and greatest in the kingdom. There's nothing in there about 1,000 years in hell. The second part tells you that God's standard of righteousness is way beyond anything we can imagine - much greater than what the Pharisees considered to be "standard" (the law and all their additions to it). Again, nothing there about 1,000 years in hell.

 

[npetreley]

If Christ told us that God will not forgive us if we don't forgive others, then there must be a reason He warned us of this fact. What is it?

It's irrelevant what I believe is the reason. You are the one who believes in kingdom salvation. The burden of proof that scripture teaches kingdom salvation is upon you. What others think about the verses you select has nothing to do with proving your view.

 

[J. Jump]

That question is based on a premise to which I do not subscribe. There is no answer in my view.

Am I reading your correctly? There is absolutely nothing for a saved person to fear at the JSOC?

 

[npetreley]

Am I reading your correctly? There is absolutely nothing for a saved person to fear at the JSOC?

That isn't what I said.

Regardless, the same answer applies as to what I told James. What I think the JSOC is about is irrelevant. You think it's about kingdom salvation and that a certain amount of unconfessed sin will land someone in hell for 1,000 years. The burden of proof that this is what the JSOC is about is upon you.

 

[J. Jump]

That's because you've added to scripture,

Please show me what I have added to Scripture? Now granted there is a segment of kingdom believers that do not believe that saved people will go to hell.

However with that said I don't know how you get around the verses of Scripture that speaks of burning and fire. And these verses are throughout the NT and are addressed to believers.

So when you are pinned down on the threshhold of "bad" required to end up in hell (and not just with lesser rewards), you come up empty

That is your opinion. Here's what Scripture SAYS on the matter:

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Again how many Scriptures do you need? Nothing has been added to Scripture. The gospel accounts are not written for the benefit of those on their way to the lake of fire for the endless ages. The gospel accounts are written for the benefit of the saved.

I could go on and on.

 

[J. Jump]

That isn't what I said.

I guess you too are having a hard time with the "?" I didn't say that's what you said I asked you if that was what you were saying. There's a HUGE difference there.

The burden of proof that this is what the JSOC is about is upon you.

I get so sick of listening to this lame line. There is no rule that said only one side has the burden of proof. For some reason you people have it in your mind that we are the only ones that have to defend what we believe and that we should just dump what we believe and believe what you believe just because you say so.

You say you are correct so prove that you are. What danger is possible for the saved at the JSOC if our view is wrong.

Do you believe like webdog that there will be saved individuals that do not rule and reign with Christ in the coming kingdom? If so what happens to those folks and what is the Scripture that makes that so?

 

[npetreley]

I guess you too are having a hard time with the "?" I didn't say that's what you said I asked you if that was what you were saying. There's a HUGE difference there.

This is getting too wierd for me.

YOU ASKED ME IF THAT WAS WHAT I WAS SAYING. I RESPONDED, THAT ISN'T WHAT I SAID. So, I answered your question. That isn't what I said. Or, if you prefer, that isn't what I'm saying. Pick a tense.

 

[J. Jump]

YOU ASKED ME IF THAT WAS WHAT I WAS SAYING. I RESPONDED, THAT ISN'T WHAT I SAID. So, I answered your question. That isn't what I said. Or, if you prefer, that isn't what I'm saying. Pick a tense.

Well a double dose of crow for me today . I apologize I read your response in a different manner than you intended it.

I read it as you accusing me of attributing something to you in which you did not say.

So now that we are understanding each other what "are you saying?" What is the danger for the saved person at the JSOC? Is it loss of reward? If so what does that mean? Do all saved people rule and reign with Christ? If not what happens to those that don't?

 

[James_Newman]

No, He didn't. The first part (verse 19) talks about being least and greatest in the kingdom. There's nothing in there about 1,000 years in hell. The second part tells you that God's standard of righteousness is way beyond anything we can imagine - much greater than what the Pharisees considered to be "standard" (the law and all their additions to it). Again, nothing there about 1,000 years in hell.

You can't get over 1000 years in hell, can you. He said if your righteousness didn't exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, that you would not enter the kingdom. He said whosoever breaks one of the least commandments and teaches men so would be least in the kingdom. What does that say for someone who is breaking a greater commandment? I don't care where you say a person who dies with unconfessed sins goes for that thousand years, as long as you don't say they are going to be reigning with Christ.

 

[npetreley]

You can't get over 1000 years in hell, can you. He said if your righteousness didn't exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, that you would not enter the kingdom. He said whosoever breaks one of the least commandments and teaches men so would be least in the kingdom. What does that say for someone who is breaking a greater commandment? I don't care where you say a person who dies with unconfessed sins goes for that thousand years, as long as you don't say they are going to be reigning with Christ.

Okay, let me put it this way. How righteous were the Pharisees? How do you get more righteous than that? That's your benchmark for getting into the kingdom of heaven. After that, you can start benchmarking what it takes to be least or greatest. But you have to start with being more righteous than the Pharisees, otherwise you won't even get in -- so least and greatest mean nothing until you exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.

So, how righteous do you have to be in order to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, and what do you have to do to attain that righteousness?

Yes, for KS believers, this IS a trick question.

 

[James_Newman]

Okay, let me put it this way. How righteous were the Pharisees? How do you get more righteous than that? That's your benchmark for getting into the kingdom of heaven. After that, you can start benchmarking what it takes to be least or greatest. But you have to start with being more righteous than the Pharisees, otherwise you won't even get in -- so least and greatest mean nothing until you exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.

So, how righteous do you have to be in order to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, and what do you have to do to attain that righteousness?

Yes, for KS believers, this IS a trick question.

I would say don't do the things that the pharisees did that Jesus condemned them for. Then do the things that they didn't do that Jesus condemned them for. That would be a good start. But if you do mess up, be sure and confess it.

 

[npetreley]

I would say don't do the things that the pharisees did that Jesus condemned them for. Then do the things that they didn't do that Jesus condemned them for. That would be a good start. But if you do mess up, be sure and confess it.

Wow! I even told you this was a trick question, and you still fell for it!

6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

There is NOTHING you can do to attain ANY righteousness. You have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS apart from faith in Christ.

 

[J. Jump]

There is NOTHING you can do to attain ANY righteousness. You have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS apart from faith in Christ.

Faith in Christ that leads to righteous acts produced in our memebers through the Holy Spirit that we are given credit for.

Revelation tells us this: It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Exactly right. We so easily confuse jusitifcation and sanctification.

We also easily forget that he died for our justification, but we are also told to justify ourselves repeatedly.

Why do we remember the one and forget the other?

 

[James_Newman]

Wow! I even told you this was a trick question, and you still fell for it!



There is NOTHING you can do to attain ANY righteousness. You have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS apart from faith in Christ.

No, I knew what you were going to say before you said it. But I wanted to hear you say it.

Romans 6:19-20
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

1 Corinthians 15:34
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.