Appointed To Eternal Life?

[Silverhair]

Simply worshipping God doesn't save anybody. They came to believe after the fact.

Acts 16:14 - And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

As was the case with the Lydia, the Gentile's hearts still had to be opened to come to a point of faith.

I agree that just worshiping God will not save you. Only God can save you and He has said that He will save those that trust in Him.
What are we told in Acts 13:26-48? The death and resurrection of Christ and salvation through Him for those that believe.

So your saying that God saves those that do not believe in Him. If that were true then why did Christ, Paul, John and others says that those that believe will be saved?

Lydia was already a worshiper of God Paul just presented the gospel message to her showing that salvation was through the risen Christ.

If you just read a few more verses your confusion about Lydia would have been cleared up. Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God while in prison. When the earthquake struck the jailer who would have heard them asked one simple question Act 16:30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" their response was clear and direct Act 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Now by your logic Paul should have told him he was saved and God would give him faith to believe.

But your view is not supported by scripture is it.

Joh 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Are you going to say that the Holy Spirit made a mistake?

 

[Rye]

So your saying that God saves those that do not believe in Him. If that were true then why did Christ, Paul, John and others says that those that believe will be saved?

I did not say God saves those that do not believe in Him. I'm saying the only reason why anyone comes to faith in the first place is because the Holy Spirit enables them to do so.

Lydia was already a worshiper of God Paul just presented the gospel message to her showing that salvation was through the risen Christ.

Lydia was a Gentile adherent to the Mosaic Law. Again, that never saved anyone. The Holy Spirit had to come down on her at the appointed time to remove her heart of stone and give her a heart of flesh. After that, she was able to accept the Gospel message.

Now by your logic Paul should have told him he was saved and God would give him faith to believe.

He wasn't saved before faith. He was chosen beforehand in eternity past to be saved, therefore he most certainly would come to faith and be saved.

But your view is not supported by scripture is it.

I recognize that this is simply saying that everyone who believes will have salvation. Who is everyone that believes? The elect. This does not suggest an invitation to all mankind. As stated earlier, God ordains the end and the means as to how one comes to faith, whether it be by hearing the Gospel by word of mouth or reading it in the scriptures.

Are you going to say that the Holy Spirit made a mistake?

I would never dare make such an assertion. However, us flawed creatures are capable of making mistakes. I started out in a cultic Christian group and had to find my way out. I believed what I was taught and tried to teach others the same and I'm sure that I will be held accountable for that. What I have learned since then is to seek consistency because that is the only way to get truth.

 

[Silverhair]

I did not say God saves those that do not believe in Him. I'm saying the only reason why anyone comes to faith in the first place is because the Holy Spirit enables them to do so.

So if the Holy Spirit does not enable them then they cannot believe so we have God working against Himself as we know that He desires all to come to Him and yet does not enable all to come to Him.

Lydia was a Gentile adherent to the Mosaic Law. Again, that never saved anyone. The Holy Spirit had to come down on her at the appointed time to remove her heart of stone and give her a heart of flesh. After that, she was able to accept the Gospel message.

So you continue to deny clear scripture.

He wasn't saved before faith. He was chosen beforehand in eternity past to be saved, therefore he most certainly would come to faith and be saved.

If as you say he was chosen in eternity past then why are not all people saved as God desires all to be saved? Looking at it another way, if those to be saved were pre-chosen then you remove the need for the cross, the gospel, the outreach to the lost. Those that were chosen beforehand could never be in doubt of being saved so you have just made the bible, and preaching irrelevant.
You also have to wonder why those that hold to the calvinist view even bother to post on these boards or even preach as according to them it will make no difference in who is saved.

That theological view when taken to it's logical end can only be supported by twisting scripture and changing the meaning of words.

 

[Rye]

So if the Holy Spirit does not enable them then they cannot believe so we have God working against Himself as we know that He desires all to come to Him and yet does not enable all to come to Him.

Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

God does not try and fail. He is working all things according to the counsel of His will. That includes demonstrating His attributes, such as His wrath, His mercy, His justice. He can do with His creation as He sees fit and He will be shown to be righteous with all that He has done at the end.

So you continue to deny clear scripture.

How so? Because I am denying that the Jews had a libertarian free will?

Romans 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

There is no one who seeks God, not some who seeks God.

Looking at it another way, if those to be saved were pre-chosen then you remove the need for the cross, the gospel, the outreach to the lost.

Of course not. The cross is the only way anyone is saved and the Gospel message enlightens the elect. Sure, God could have chose to create a world where everyone is saved, but he didn’t. He didn’t because this is how the Triune God wishes to glorify Himself and I dare not question how he chooses to accomplish that.

You also have to wonder why those that hold to the calvinist view even bother to post on these boards or even preach as according to them it will make no difference in who is saved.

It absolutely makes a difference. Isn’t it a wonderful thing when the Lord uses us as the instrument to bring someone to faith?

That theological view when taken to it's logical end can only be supported by twisting scripture and changing the meaning of words.

Changing words? All I did was define what “appointed” can and cannot mean.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Rye

John 8:47 - He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

This does not say that they refuse to hear God's words, but that they cannot hear God's words. If anyone is of God, that means they can hear God's words because they have been appointed to eternal life.

This is True, and if anyone is of God, that means they are already saved/regenerated, so being saved is a prerequisite to being able to spiritually hear Gods word.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

If as you say he was chosen in eternity past then why are not all people saved as God desires all to be saved?

Thats false, His desire is for all His Elect to be saved,not the reprobate vessels of wrath He created for destruction.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Thats false, His desire is for all His Elect to be saved,not the reprobate vessels of wrath He created for destruction.

You continue to deny clear scripture so that you can hold to your man made theology.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Silverhair]

@Rye



This is True, and if anyone is of God, that means they are already saved/regenerated, so being saved is a prerequisite to being able to spiritually hear Gods word.

It is really sad to see people that abuse the word of God such as you and @Rye are doing.

It is not that the Jews could not hear it is that they refused to hear/believe what Christ was saying. Context shows the error of your thinking.

But you will continue to live in your bubble as it makes you feel special. The arrogance to think that God chose you over all those reprobates. There must be something special about you. You can't say it was an arbitrary choice so there must have been a reason. What made you standout so as to be selected for salvation?

 

[Brightfame52]

You continue to deny clear scripture so that you can hold to your man made theology.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Thats the elect

 

[Brightfame52]

It is really sad to see people that abuse the word of God such as you and @Rye are doing.

It is not that the Jews could not hear it is that they refused to hear/believe what Christ was saying. Context shows the error of your thinking.

But you will continue to live in your bubble as it makes you feel special. The arrogance to think that God chose you over all those reprobates. There must be something special about you. You can't say it was an arbitrary choice so there must have been a reason. What made you standout so as to be selected for salvation?

One has to be saved to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now what in carnation does it mean to be of God ?

 

[Silverhair]

Thats the elect

So your a universalist.

 

[Silverhair]

One has to be saved to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now what in carnation does it mean to be of God ?

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The bible proves your view is wrong. But that has never stopped you from putting forth your false theology has it?

 

[Brightfame52]

So your a universalist.

Is that what you call all the elect ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The bible proves your view is wrong. But that has never stopped you from putting forth your false theology has it?

One has to be saved to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Its the same word, so the one who heard in Eph 1:13 was saved/of God in order to hear and believe

 

[Silverhair]

One has to be saved to hear Gods word Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Its the same word, so the one who heard in Eph 1:13 was saved/of God in order to hear and believe

How do you come up with this twisted logic?

 

[Dougcho]

Appointment to eternal life results in belief. If anyone does not believe, they were not appointed to eternal life.
This is a straightforward statement that is consistent with the rest of scripture.

John 8:47 - He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
This does not say that they refuse to hear God's words, but that they cannot hear God's words.
If anyone is of God, that means they can hear God's words because they have been appointed to eternal life.

Yes, they CANNOT hear God's words ...
Jesus says, “No one can (is able to) come to Me” (John 6:44, 65) ... without God’s help!
Jesus says God has to draw (*) people to Him (John 6:44)!
(*) Greek, helko: draw, drag; Strong’s #1670.
Other “helko” verses are Acts 16:19 and James 2:6, which talk about dragging.

 

[Brightfame52]

How do you come up with this twisted logic?

They heard the Truth, the Gospel, thats the word of God, cant you read Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

Now Jesus tells us who hears the words of God which the Gospel is Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

To be of God is to be saved. Thats logical and biblical

 

[Silverhair]

They heard the Truth, the Gospel, thats the word of God, cant you read Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

Now Jesus tells us who hears the words of God which the Gospel is Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

To be of God is to be saved. Thats logical and biblical

So you have people saved that have not believed the gospel message as according to you they cannot understand the message until they are in Christ and to be in Christ means you are saved. You do have a strange way of reading scripture.

If you would just learn to read verses in context you would not make such foolish claims as you do.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, they CANNOT hear God's words ...
Jesus says, “No one can (is able to) come to Me” (John 6:44, 65) ... without God’s help!
Jesus says God has to draw (*) people to Him (John 6:44)!
(*) Greek, helko: draw, drag; Strong’s #1670.
Other “helko” verses are Acts 16:19 and James 2:6, which talk about dragging.

Are you suggesting that the Jews were deaf? From the text we see that though they could hear Christ they did not accept what He said but we know that some did hear and accept what He said as they followed Him. They became His disciples.

God has provide lots of help for people to know Him, creation, conviction of the Holy Spirit, the preaching of the gospel message. God has not left mankind without the means of knowing Him.

God does draw people to Himself, in fact Christ made a clear statement on whom He would draw and why.
Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw {G1670} all men to Myself."

The phrase “all men” does not suggest universal salvation. It means “all people without distinction,” that is, Jews and Gentiles. He does not force them; He draws them (John 6:44-45). He was “lifted up” that men might find the way (John 12:32), know the truth (John 8:28), and receive the life (John 3:14, John 3:17). The cross reminds us that God loves the whole world and that the task of the church is to take the Gospel to the whole world. Gods' desire is that "all men without exception" come to salvation. (1Timothy 2:4-6) It is a universal call to salvation. If Paul really did not mean "all" G3956 in (1Timothy 2:4-6) what should he have said here to make it any clearer?

One needs to understand the difference between using a word to describe purely physical interactions with inanimate objects like swords Joh_18:10 or nets Joh_21:11 or even people who are being physically overpowered, Act_16:19, Act_21:30, Jas_2:6 and interactions between persons in reference to their emotions, wills, and other spiritual components. That is why no translation has “drag” in Joh_6:44 or Joh_12:32, since “drag” does not fit the context.

 

[Rye]

1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 - I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Who are the "all men" being spoken of? Kings and all those in authority. Yes, God desires even rulers to be saved, not just peasants. This establishes classes of men. It would be like me saying that all cowboys fans are weird. Obviously I'm talking about a group of people because not all people are cowboys fans.

Revelation 5:9 - And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Notice, the "us" are believers (the elect). They have been redeemed from out of every kindred, tongue, people, nation. It does not say they have been redeemed in every kindred, tongue, people, and nation, otherwise you'd be a universalist.

It is really sad to see people that abuse the word of God such as you and @Rye are doing.

I guess you think we're trying to be jerks for no reason.

It is not that the Jews could not hear it is that they refused to hear/believe what Christ was saying.

Again, the John 8:37 says they cannot hear. The assumption that they refused to hear is nowhere to be found. It is unreasonable for folks to get frustrated because the words that they want to be there simply aren't there.

But you will continue to live in your bubble as it makes you feel special. The arrogance to think that God chose you over all those reprobates. There must be something special about you. You can't say it was an arbitrary choice so there must have been a reason. What made you standout so as to be selected for salvation?

That is a misrepresentation. There is nothing special about me at all. God does not look down the corridors of time and select some to be saved because of anything they do. One who is chosen for salvation is not better than their next door neighbor who is passed over for damnation. It is all the grace of God and that is why there is no grounds for boasting in ourselves.

Romans 9:11 - for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Romans 9:16 - So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The bible proves your view is wrong. But that has never stopped you from putting forth your false theology has it?

How does one become "in Him"?

Ephesians 1:4 - according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

He chooses us in Him, not once you choose to be in Him then He chooses you. That's reading the text backwards, my friend.

So you have people saved that have not believed the gospel message as according to you they cannot understand the message until they are in Christ and to be in Christ means you are saved.

Another misrepresentation. Anyone who is chosen to be saved will most certainly believe the Gospel message as they experience it in time.