Appointed To Eternal Life?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Silverhair



Yet how can one hear spiritually if they aren't already of God as Jesus says Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Then what message did you hear that caused the trust in Christ ? AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation..." (Eph. 1:13). To trust in Christ one must know what He has done and for whom He has done it. How this could be done without knowledge of election that God gave His Son the people He was to die for !

And how could it be the Gospel of your salvation if you are not already saved ?

My brother, you can go round and round with this guy but you will never be able to effectively convince him of you belief system no matter what you say or do, it’s not going to happen unless it is revealed to him via the HS….so give yourself peace and don’t continue to both frustrate yourself & give him a platform for his own viewpoints. If nobody enguages he will be compelled to shut up & go away…Don’t encourage him,

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Should I be impressed, how long did it take you to figure that out?
Still doers not alter what the bible says does it.
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved

Does God desire the Salvation of these ? 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

 

[Silverhair]

My brother, you can go round and round with this guy but you will never be able to effectively convince him of you belief system no matter what you say or do, it’s not going to happen unless it is revealed to him via the HS….so give yourself peace and don’t continue to both frustrate yourself & give him a platform for his own viewpoints. If nobody enguages he will be compelled to shut up & go away…Don’t encourage him,

I think he just has a few comments put on autoreply as he never changes his response. BF is just going to land on ignore again.

 

[DaveXR650]

Give it a try as I made a number of posts regarding the pagan basis of calvinism.

I would be careful in that everything can be attached to an earlier teaching but that does not mean that it came from that teaching. If you read a Christian writer of any era on being content in one's circumstances I will guarantee you can tie it directly to Stoicism, for instance. That is why Edwards thought so highly of that system. That's just one example. Augustine was influenced by Manicheism and maybe reverted back to it later in life. I have read Ken Wilson's book on it too. That's why I like Spurgeon above, and Edwards and Owen, who take the time to take us through the exact things involved in bringing one to salvation. If you have time read Owen on the work of the Holy Spirit. You might be surprised to find that he leaves some room for human free will and has a lot to say about the complicated interactions that occur between the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit and our free will, both in a natural state and when acted upon by the Holy Spirit.

As Spurgeon shows above, at the point of actual salvation, the systems are the same. The argument is over how we get there. The sermon above that Martin put up an excerpt from also talks about how highly he thinks of Wesley, and also how the idea of a free and actual offer, and God's true desire for the salvation of all men does indeed accompany God's right to act in a sovereign way in our salvation.

If you believe that God has no right or if you limit his activity toward us to putting out the gospel in the form of the informational proposals and then man is left to evaluate and decide whether to believe you are definitely at one end of the spectrum. But if you believe, like some on this forum do, that God has already decided everything and has already justified the elect, and has nothing to say at all to the rest of humanity, then you are at the other end of the spectrum and are not at all close to even most Calvinists. Spurgeon mentions in his sermon (which is available on the archive website) that as men we have to keep God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in mind at the same time, which may be impossible for our human minds to achieve to our satisfaction.

One of the most powerful arguments for some level of Calvinistic theology is to just ask yourself this. If you have someone you really care about, who is not a believer, but has indeed heard the gospel, do you ever pray for them? If you do, what exactly are you asking God to do to them?

 

[Silverhair]

I would be careful in that everything can be attached to an earlier teaching but that does not mean that it came from that teaching. If you read a Christian writer of any era on being content in one's circumstances I will guarantee you can tie it directly to Stoicism, for instance. That is why Edwards thought so highly of that system. That's just one example. Augustine was influenced by Manicheism and maybe reverted back to it later in life. I have read Ken Wilson's book on it too. That's why I like Spurgeon above, and Edwards and Owen, who take the time to take us through the exact things involved in bringing one to salvation. If you have time read Owen on the work of the Holy Spirit. You might be surprised to find that he leaves some room for human free will and has a lot to say about the complicated interactions that occur between the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit and our free will, both in a natural state and when acted upon by the Holy Spirit.

As Spurgeon shows above, at the point of actual salvation, the systems are the same. The argument is over how we get there. The sermon above that Martin put up an excerpt from also talks about how highly he thinks of Wesley, and also how the idea of a free and actual offer, and God's true desire for the salvation of all men does indeed accompany God's right to act in a sovereign way in our salvation.

If you believe that God has no right or if you limit his activity toward us to putting out the gospel in the form of the informational proposals and then man is left to evaluate and decide whether to believe you are definitely at one end of the spectrum. But if you believe, like some on this forum do, that God has already decided everything and has already justified the elect, and has nothing to say at all to the rest of humanity, then you are at the other end of the spectrum and are not at all close to even most Calvinists. Spurgeon mentions in his sermon (which is available on the archive website) that as men we have to keep God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in mind at the same time, which may be impossible for our human minds to achieve to our satisfaction.

One of the most powerful arguments for some level of Calvinistic theology is to just ask yourself this. If you have someone you really care about, who is not a believer, but has indeed heard the gospel, do you ever pray for them? If you do, what exactly are you asking God to do to them?

What you have said in your post re: salvation is what any logical person would say. It is not calvinist or arminian it is just biblical. God is sovereign and man is responsible, again biblical. God uses various means to draw us to Him and man has the free will to choose to accept or reject that drawing, again biblical.

Thankfully I did not hear of this theological divide, C vs A, until a few years ago. I just trusted scripture as it was written.

Since you read Ken Wilson's book I am sure that you are aware of the theological shift that occurred in Augustine's thinking after he interacted with Pelagius. Rather than just stick with scripture he ran back to his pagan teachers. Calvin picked up what Augustine had written and carried it forward. To deny that he influenced present day Calvinism is to ignore history.

Owen, Edwards, Spurgeon etc. just said what the bible says, God is sovereign & man is responsible. But what seems to be the stumbling block is that the present day Calvinist cannot or rather will not accept the fact that man has a free will. God uses various means to draw man to Himself but He will not force man to come to Him. It is clearly shown in scripture and yet many still deny this. Our faith does not save us but it is the reason that God will save us. No faith or faith in the wrong person or thing will not save anyone.

You say praying for your loved ones to be saved is an argument for Calvinism. It is not an argument for either Calvinism or Arminianism. It is an argument for biblical theology. Both views are man-made ways of trying to understand the word of God. Both have their good and bad points that is why I reject both.

 

[Brightfame52]

God only appointed the elect to eternal life, in that they are the heirs of salvation/promise Heb 1:14


Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Note: Heirs of Salvation is Eternal life

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

But all others, the vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction Rom 9 have always been appointed to wrath 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us[heirs] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So non heirs have been appointed to wrath !

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Dear viewers,

Yes, God desires for all to be saved, though we still need to decide if we want to believe or not.

According to my quick cross-refrence checking, it seems they heard the gospel, desired to have eternal life, realized the truth, and thus believed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Dear viewers,

Yes, God desires for all to be saved, though we still need to decide if we want to believe or not.

According to my quick cross-refrence checking, it seems they heard the gospel, desired to have eternal life, realized the truth, and thus believed.

This is false

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ died for them not appointed to Wrath.​

1 Thess 5:9-10

. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

I believe this means that the ones appointed to wrath, Christ didn't die for them. Who are they appointed to wrath ? Romans 9 tells us,

Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The word to make poieō is a verb that has to do with to create.

Its the same word Jesus speaks Matt 19:4

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

And we know this refers back to creation Gen 5:1-2

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

So God made some men as vessels of dishonor. The word dishonor atimia means:

dishonour, ignominy, disgrace dishonour (4x), vile (1x), shame (1x), reproach (1x).

In the last day the vessels of wrath will be raised unto shame/contempt and wrath Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Job speaks of the wicked reserved unto the day of wrath

Job 21:30

that the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Now these men Christ did not die for, for what reason would He since He made them for the day of wrath for their sins, they are appointed to it.

BUT those who were made vessels of Mercy, God did not appoint them to wrath, but conversely for them to obtain Salvation. How ? Through the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Predestination?

 

[37818]

Predestination?

Matthew 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . .

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Matthew 25:41, Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: . . .

Thanks for replying,

What I mean is the "predestination" of Calvinsim where it says that Jesus only shed enough blood for those who will be saved, and God already picked who would be saved, and they will be saved no matter what.

 

[Brightfame52]

Thanks for replying,

What I mean is the "predestination" of Calvinsim where it says that Jesus only shed enough blood for those who will be saved, and God already picked who would be saved, and they will be saved no matter what.

Calvinism is the Gospel the truths of Tulip and the elect[those picked by God] shall be saved no matter what since Jesus died for their sins and put them away, and Gods Justice for them has been satisfied.

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Calvinism is the Gospel the truths of Tulip and the elect[those picked by God] shall be saved no matter what since Jesus died for their sins and put them away, and Gods Justice for them has been satisfied.

Yes, and do thou believe in that?

I for one do not belive in Calvinsim.

 

[37818]

Thanks for replying,

What I mean is the "predestination" of Calvinsim where it says that Jesus only shed enough blood for those who will be saved, and God already picked who would be saved, and they will be saved no matter what.

1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-6, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . .

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Those are good verses against Calvinsim, and also, what think about the "the sins of the" which are in italics, are those in the Greek or is it there by implication?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Dear viewers,

Yes, God desires for all to be saved, though we still need to decide if we want to believe or not.

According to my quick cross-refrence checking, it seems they heard the gospel, desired to have eternal life, realized the truth, and thus believed.

No

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-6, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . .

Define ‘Whole World’

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Why not?

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Define ‘Whole World’

Its exactly as what it is in the English, its the entire world. God hath founded the world, and all therein. The flood was the whole earth, the whole world.

The world can be defined the periods of the world as well, such as the first world, and so forth. The old world was destroyed by the flood, it could also be referring to the spiritual worldly world. Love not the world, neither the things therein.

The Gospel:

For
God so loved the world that he gave his
Only begotten
Son that whosoever believeth him should not perish but
Everlasting
Life.

Jesus died for you, shed his blood on that cursed tree, to save you and the whole world, he died, rose again on the 3rd day, put your faith as Paul saith in Romans 3:16 in his precious blood which God saith that is the life of the flesh and without the shedding of blood, there is no remission.

Alleuia!