Are All Men Drawn Equally?

[preacher4truth]

Since Preacher4truth posted first, I'm going to answer him first. My replies in blue.

Your stories are not to be equated with the stories Christ gave are they? Are you saying your stories are to be equated with eternal truth, too, as were those our Lord Jesus Christ gave to us? None of ours are such. Thus, as you say "poohpooh."

I never implied, nor called you a liar, so stop the nonsense. I simply put in quotation marks to emphasize that you call it true, and by that implication you are equating your story as proving that man has free will. Simplified: Having a "true story" does not prove man has free will. If it were that simple to prove it, write a theology, place your story in there and then it is all settled. All your story does is exemplify God's choosing, not mans.

God chose to work how He willed to do so in each life you commented on to His glory. I will not reply against the Potter for it. One was chosen by Him to glorify Him in being saved. The other to glorify Him in His Sovereign ability and will in another way.

"Let me help you out." What a sweet sweet spirit right there. :thumbs:

I offered to go study this out about Cain. Just by offering the Biblical address doesn't prove you correct.

I believe your doctrine glorifies man, in that you reached out and grabbed God, and show that others do the same, at least in how you see it. The Biblical account describes it differently.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer has a point, in that he says in all he did, in all choices he made, it turns out it wasn't really he at all that made them, but God working in him, and that he came to understand it was all God leading him, that God grasped him, and not the other way around.


Again "It is not of he who wills (chooses, literally) nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." And that mercy He gives to whomever He pleases. And whom He wills, He hardens, not them, He does it.

The potter has power over the clay, not vice versa.

He chose those whom He would save before the foundation of the world, we didn't choose Him.

- Blessings

 

[webdog]

?

I am just obeying Jesus' commands...

Luk 17:10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have only done what was our duty.'"

...and if you have read this thread, I already said I'm unworthy. My wife might feel unworthy of my love for her, and she might actually be, but to ME she is worthy as I choose to love her

 

[preacher4truth]

He did not "deem us worthy." He chose to show mercy, for the purpose of displaying His own glory, despite the fact that we were infinitely unworthy. The idea that their is any "worth" attached to us, is indeed disturbing.

Yup. Right on track.

 

[Luke2427]

...and if you have read this thread, I already said I'm unworthy. My wife might feel unworthy of my love for her, and she might actually be, but to ME she is worthy as I choose to love her

If you ARE unworthy then God MUST see you as UNWORTHY since God's perspective is always RIGHT.

You don't get to say, "I am not worthy but God feels I am."

Because that statement says God's feelings are wrong- God missed it. God feels that things are a way which they aren't.

Webdog, God did not DEEM you worthy or FEEL you were worthy because you are not.

No where in the Bible does it teach that God thinks, feels or deems sinners as worthy of Christ's sacrifice. To say that we are worthy of such a thing is to say that we are the most valuable things in the universe because the sacrifice of Christ is the highest price that can ever be paid. To say we were worthy is to say that when he got us, he got EXACTLY what he paid for by his blood and NOT ONE BIT LESS.

That is HORRIBLE and a HORRIBLE thing to say.

When you say God feels that you are worthy then you are saying that YOU ARE WORTHY because God CANNOT be wrong.

 

[psalms109:31]

Worthy

God has shown mercy to those who find themselves unworthy, and find the one who is worthy, Jesus His Son and trust in Him.

God has hidden the truth from the wise and learned those who see themselves worthy and they are worthy only in their own eyes.

We are not His by natural decent or human will or anything from man, but because God decided to save those who believe(trust) in His Son.

We are the children of Abraham who believed God and was credited by God righteousness, and born of God.

2 Corinthians 12:
5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, 7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[webdog]

If you ARE unworthy then God MUST see you as UNWORTHY since God's perspective is always RIGHT.

You don't get to say, "I am not worthy but God feels I am."

Because that statement says God's feelings are wrong- God missed it. God feels that things are a way which they aren't.

Webdog, God did not DEEM you worthy or FEEL you were worthy because you are not.

I don't "get to say"...but you do?

 

[Luke2427]

I don't "get to say"...but you do?

Yea, you get to say it but it is wrong.

It is plainly wrong for you say that it is a fact that you are NOT worthy of Christ's sacrifice and then say that God feels, or deems, or thinks that you are.

It is wrong because you accuse God of getting it wrong concerning you.

You know you are not worthy but God has not yet figured it out- that is to imply that you know something factual that God does not know.

Either you are worthy or you are not.

If God deems you to be worthy- then you are.

So yes, you GET to say whatever you want- but if you want to make sense and be credible, then you don't get to say things that don't make sense.

 

[Havensdad]

...and if you have read this thread, I already said I'm unworthy. My wife might feel unworthy of my love for her, and she might actually be, but to ME she is worthy as I choose to love her

But Jesus would not command people to lie. So they must actually be unworthy. It is not just "feeling" unworthy. Jesus is saying that we actually ARE unworthy. And since Jesus is the one saying it (i.e. God), I can assert without equivocation that we are, indeed, unworthy, even to God.

God does not save us because we are worthy. He saves us because He is merciful, and desires to bring glory to Himself.