Are all the letters of Ignatius of Antioch forgeries?

[37818]

Lets take a close look at that. You are still reading the Bible through its English meanings rather than delving into the language and culture in which it was originally written. The text in 1 Corinthians 10:16–17 points to the Real Presence: “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.” Now ask yourself: What must the cup and the bread be to make possible this participation in the blood and body of Christ? The most obvious and logical answer is that the bread and cup of wine must really be the body and blood of Christ.

The word being translated "participation" means fellowship. And believers being the one body indwelt by the Spirit of Christ [Romans 8:9] are acting in fellowship in doing the remembrance. The real presence is in the believers [1 Corintians 10:17], not in the ritual.

 

[Cathode]

Then you agree the following instruction is wtong, "It is not lawful either to baptise or to hold an “agapé” without the bishop; but whatever he approve, this is also pleasing God, that everything which you do may be secure and valid." -- from verse 8, LETTER TO THE SMYRNAEANS. It is not according to the word of God.

The rule today is that Baptism can take place in an emergency.

 

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The rule today is that Baptism can take place in an emergency.

There is no emergency believer's immersion. Remember the thief on the cross?

 

[Cathode]

There is no emergency believer's immersion. Remember the thief on the cross?

Not in that case, but He came in under another provision.

 

[Eliyahu]

Catholics do not seek a spiritual rebirth, for they are taught born-again means getting baptized with water. So a cradle to grave Catholic will definitely see no need to seek the Holy Spirit rebirth for they think this "must do" Jesus spoke of was already done for them when they were a baby.

Correct!

Eliyahu

 

[Eliyahu]

Jesus' words in Jn 6:63 have essentially a two-fold meaning: it is only the Spirit that can accomplish the miracle of the Eucharist, and it is only the Spirit that can empower us to believe in the miracle. If you are relying on the power of the flesh, you aren’t going to see it!

You must look at the whole chapter of John 6.
Jews sought Jesus to get the food like Manna, but Jesus concluded that they should believe in Him for their daily lives. Believing in Jesus would have got the Jews the daily necessities as the Spirit of Jesus could have led their lives.

Read John 6

25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.


These verses don't say about the Eucharist but teach us that Jesus is our daily Bread as He would live within us by Spirit, and the Spirit would lead us in all matters of our lives. Jesus is better than Manna as He is the Eternal Life.

This is not talking about the ritual with drinking blood and eating the roasted flesh, but talking about Being Born Again by Spirit, then the Spirit will lead our lives in the best ways.
Roman Catholics misunderstand or don't understand these verses because they are not Born Again in Lord Jesus Christ, sadly.

Eliyahu

 

[Cathode]

There is no emergency believer's immersion. Remember the thief on the cross?

Apart from the good thief’s Faith and good works, he was under the promise of Christ.

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven.”

 

[37818]

Apart from the good thief’s Faith and good works, he was under the promise of Christ.

“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven.”

Good works had nothing to do with it. Romans 11:6.

 

[Cathode]

Good works had nothing to do with it. Romans 11:6.

Sure it does, the good thief confessed publically to Christ’s innocence, a good work which promises a counter witness of Jesus before the Father in Heaven.

 

[37818]

Sure it does, the good thief confessed publically to Christ’s innocence, a good work which promises a counter witness of Jesus before the Father in Heaven.

Do you not understand Romans 11:6 argument? ". . . And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. . . ." It is an either or, but not both.

 

[Cathode]

Do you not understand Romans 11:6 argument? ". . . And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. . . ." It is an either or, but not both.

It isn’t “works”, it’s good works by Grace.

 

[37818]

It isn’t “works”, it’s good works by Grace.

Then it is not grace per Romans 11:6.

 

[Cathode]

Then it is not grace per Romans 11:6.

It’s Love per God.

The human works of Babel, to try reach God and heaven by those works are failures.

Love however is works by Grace since God is Love.

The Good Thief as helpless as he was on his Cross could only witness to Jesus innocence to defend Him. Heaving for breath, he used those dying words to defend Jesus out of Love.

The Good Works of Love are by God’s Presence with all His Grace.

So many still confuse works, with Good Works, it’s fascinating watching people miss the entire point of scripture.

 

[37818]

It’s Love per God.

The human works of Babel, to try reach God and heaven by those works are failures.

Love however is works by Grace since God is Love.

The Good Thief as helpless as he was on his Cross could only witness to Jesus innocence to defend Him. Heaving for breath, he used those dying words to defend Jesus out of Love.

The Good Works of Love are by God’s Presence with all His Grace.

So many still confuse works, with Good Works, it’s fascinating watching people miss the entire point of scripture.

Psalms 53:3, ". . . there is none that doeth good, no, not one. . . ."
Romans 3:10, ". . . There is none righteous, no, not one: . . ."

Titus 3:4-5, ". . . that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, . . ."

Ephesians 2:9, ". . . Not of works . . . ."

 

[Cathode]

Psalms 53:3, ". . . there is none that doeth good, no, not one. . . ."

Read on

Psalm 53:4 “Do all these evildoers know nothing?

They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on God.”

There is a differentiation between all mankind and God’s people set apart.

Romans 3:10, ". . . There is none righteous, no, not one: . . ."

Job1:1 “There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.”

Titus 3:4-5, ". . . that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, . . ."

“3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared”

He is talking about the Jews “we” not deserving a Savior by anything they had done, but it was down to the mercy of God.

Ephesians 2:9, ". . . Not of works . . . ."

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

Faith is of supernatural origin, not gained by human works This doesn’t mean you don’t need the good works of Love.

 

[37818]

Faith is of supernatural origin, not gained by human works This doesn’t mean you don’t need the good works of Love.

Faith and a faith and the faith. The faith, Jude 1:3.

Now faith in general is necessary for all knowledge.

Trusting in one's works is not doing God's will. Matthew 7:21-23.

Now in Romans 4:6-7, ". . . Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. . . ."

 

[37818]

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

Salvation is the gift through faith without works for the purpose of having good works. Not at issue.

 

[Cathode]

Salvation is the gift through faith without works for the purpose of having good works. Not at issue.

Faith is the free gift from God, not from human works. That’s all that’s being said here.

Try not doing the good works “God prepared in advance for us to do”, see how saved people are after that.

 

[37818]

Faith is the free gift from God, not from human works. That’s all that’s being said here.

No, not correct. What I stated was what Ephesians 2:8-10 teaches, ". . . For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. . . ." The gift is salvation. Not of works. Good works are the purpose of salvation.

 

[Cathode]

No, not correct. What I stated was what Ephesians 2:8-10 teaches, ". . . For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. . . ." The gift is salvation. Not of works. Good works are the purpose of salvation.

You don’t believe faith is a free gift and not of human works?