Are ALL the Word of faith/prosperity/health/wealth Groups heretical?

[Alive in Christ]

Regarding the Assemblies of God...

They deny that Jesus Christ fully satisfied all the demands of the law against sinnres which is the very heart of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Not the ones I am familure with.

They deny the gospel promise of unconditional eternal life but believe in conditional termporal life.

The ones I know of dont.

They teach the doctrine of apostasy and deny that all that the Father gives to the Son will come to the Son and none shall be lost. They preach another gospel while using gospel terminology.

Not the ones I am aware of.

I think what is going on is that you have encountered have some who have serious issues and you are unfairly "carpet bombing" all of them.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just that they have a false Gospel period?

They're heretics to be blunt.

Wrong Jesus, and wrong reasons for coming to Him.

Most of the reasons are for health, wealth, success. This is their emphasis for coming to Him as "Savior." Being lost and in sins is a secondary reason that they hold to, but is not the reason.

They have then a false "Good News." It revolves around what Jesus gives a person, and all the things this Jesus gives extend from a heart of covetousness on part of those who preach it, and completely errant idea of the Gospel itself and its true objective.

 

[The Biblicist]

Regarding the Assemblies of God...



Not the ones I am familure with.



The ones I know of dont.



Not the ones I am aware of.

I think what is going on is that you have encountered have some who have serious issues and you are unfairly "carpet bombing" all of them.

I took this off the Official Assembly of God website.

In regard to final judgement:

3. Judgment on the basis of works.
a. A judgment day for all (2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 20:12,13).
b. Judgment according to our response to the needs of others (Matthew 25:31–46).

The General Council of the Assemblies of God disapproves of the unconditional
security position which holds that it is impossible for a person once saved to be lost.

IV. Salvation Is Forfeited by Rejecting Christ

God does not let anyone go easily. (See Romans 10:21 where Paul was speaking
of Israel, but the principle applies.) But a believer can be lost if he disregards the
continuing checks of the Holy Spirit and reaches the point where he rejects Jesus as his Savour

The official position of the Assembly God is that justification by faith is ultimately conditioned by works on the day of judgement and that those justified by faith can reject Christ and become lost.

I am not saying all people in the Assembly of God are lost. I am not saying that every assembly of God member holds to their official belief. I am saying that this denomination officially denies that Christ completely and fully satisfied the law's demands against the believer and is saved and thus kept by grace. They believe that the believer can choose to stop believing in Christ and be lost and they believe that a believer can practice sin and be lost.

They do not believe that Christ is the Savior but they believe in a CO-Savior as they believe the believer has the ultimate power to save or damn himself by his own free choice to reject Jesus Christ or to choose live in sin and forfeit salvation by his "bad" works.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Biblicist...

I got this off of the AOG website under the heading "Salvation of Man"

5. The Salvation of Man
Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[DHK]

I took this off the Official Assembly of God website.

It has been my experience that the AOG has been one of the more conservative organizations in the Charismatic movement. Those that push the faith/prosperity/health/wealth etc. gospel are usually aligned with teachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and other such leaders. Their churches are more interdenominational in nature and appeal to a wider audience. Something like "Victory Christian Center" is a typical name.

God is a god that you put in your pocket like a genie that you can pull out at any time and command him to give you the things that you want. You want to be wealthy, command God to give you wealth. You want to have better health, command God to give you better health. You are the one that controls God. You command Him. They take a Scripture out of context to back up this theology, but I can't remember what it is.

 

[The Biblicist]

It has been my experience that the AOG has been one of the more conservative organizations in the Charismatic movement. Those that push the faith/prosperity/health/wealth etc. gospel are usually aligned with teachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and other such leaders. Their churches are more interdenominational in nature and appeal to a wider audience. Something like "Victory Christian Center" is a typical name.

God is a god that you put in your pocket like a genie that you can pull out at any time and command him to give you the things that you want. You want to be wealthy, command God to give you wealth. You want to have better health, command God to give you better health. You are the one that controls God. You command Him. They take a Scripture out of context to back up this theology, but I can't remember what it is.

I fully agree that AOG is far more conservative than the faith/prosperity/health/wealth charismatic movement. They are basically a mixture of Baptist and Methodist plus the non-cessionist sign gift aspect.

However, in regard to salvation they are more Methodist than Baptist. They use the right words but in the end deny their meaning. They do not believe that justification is by grace alone, even though they use the terminology. They believe that a true believer can lose salvation by choosing to reject Christ or by failing to repent of sin and they do explicitly state that ultimate judgement will be according to their works.

Therefore, their soteriology is based upon denial that Christ satisfied all the demands of the law once and for all in behalf of the elect. They believe in conditional security, conditional eternal life, conditional salvation and therefore conditoned upon maintaining good works.

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist...

I got this off of the AOG website under the heading "Salvation of Man"

Yes, but do you understand what they are saying? My uncle was AOG pastor. I have dealt with AOG through the years.

There is not a Roman Catholic on this forum that would disagree with the following statement:

5. The Salvation of Man
Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Jehovah's Witnesses woould agree with the statement above.



There is not a Roman Catholic on this forum that would disagree with the following statement:

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

Notice the absence of the term "only"! Hardly any Christian cult would reject the words "according to the hope of eternal life" but they do not use the term "hope" according to the Bibical meaning of a "confident expectation" in regard to the future nor does this statement claim the present possession of eternal life.

Biblical expressions are only as good as they are Biblical defined. AOG uses Biblical expressions but do not agree with their Biblical definitions. Like Roman Catholics the AOG cannot say "I KNOW I am going to heaven when I die" because they admit to EXCEPTIONS that might prohibit present children of God remaining children of God.

They cannot say what Jesus said, "OF ALL that the Father giveth me, I shall lose nothing" becuase they do not believe that!

 

[Moriah]

I do not know everything about the Word of Faith denomination, but what I do know, it is no worse than a denomination that teaches Calvinistic beliefs. I think that I might be able to stand being around someone of the Word of Faith religion than a Calvinist.
The Word of Faith movement does teach one how to increase their faith and that is a great thing, but I have heard that they also blame the Christian for not having enough faith when things do not always turn out the way they wanted. They also are like most churches though, with pushing the request for money. They are definitely in falseness when they practice speaking in tongues. One time I listened to Joyce Meyers and she said that after Adam and Eve sinned God hurried up and made the plan for salvation. I could hardly believe she did not know that God made the plan for salvation before the creation of the world.
The more knowledgeable one is in the Truth, then the more difficult it is for one to put up with any false doctrine.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Word of Faith movement does teach one how to increase their faith and that is a great thing, .

They believe you can manipulate God to do what you want Him to do by simply taking any promise in His word and claiming it thus making Him keep that promise.

They believe in faith in faith, and thus you can attain anything if you simply believe hard enough.

They believe that by choosing Biblical words you can create our own reality because it forces God to do what you want.

In essence, they believe you are god and you can speak the Word of God to create what you will as God becomes teh servant of your words if they are Biblical words.

 

[DHK]

I do not know everything about the Word of Faith denomination, but what I do know, it is no worse than a denomination that teaches Calvinistic beliefs. I think that I might be able to stand being around someone of the Word of Faith religion than a Calvinist.

This attack is not needed. Please keep your remarks confined to the OP.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, but do you understand what they are saying? My uncle was AOG pastor. I have dealt with AOG through the years.

There is not a Roman Catholic on this forum that would disagree with the following statement:

5. The Salvation of Man
Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Jehovah's Witnesses woould agree with the statement above.



There is not a Roman Catholic on this forum that would disagree with the following statement:

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

Notice the absence of the term "only"! Hardly any Christian cult would reject the words "according to the hope of eternal life" but they do not use the term "hope" according to the Bibical meaning of a "confident expectation" in regard to the future nor does this statement claim the present possession of eternal life.

Biblical expressions are only as good as they are Biblical defined. AOG uses Biblical expressions but do not agree with their Biblical definitions. Like Roman Catholics the AOG cannot say "I KNOW I am going to heaven when I die" because they admit to EXCEPTIONS that might prohibit present children of God remaining children of God.

They cannot say what Jesus said, "OF ALL that the Father giveth me, I shall lose nothing" becuase they do not believe that!

What a person actually believes in at the time of their professed conversion is one thing; what they later might be led to embrace and teach may be quite another thing.

Their actual state of salvation depends upon the former not the latter.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Moriah...

I do not know everything about the Word of Faith denomination, but what I do know, it is no worse than a denomination that teaches Calvinistic beliefs. I think that I might be able to stand being around someone of the Word of Faith religion than a Calvinist.

They are "2 peas in a pod" for sure.

Both are exceedingly way out in left field.

 

[The Biblicist]

Moriah...



They are "2 peas in a pod" for sure.

Both are exceedingly way out in left field.

I noticed that your subscript says you play the banjo? May I ask you if you are one of those people who are just musically inclined and gifted or did it come hard for you?

I have attempted to play the guitar but not too good. Is learning to play the banjo easier or harder than the guitar?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Hello biblicist!

Its always good to meet another musician.

I will post my reply over on the Music board here.

See ya there....

 

[Moriah]

Moriah...



They are "2 peas in a pod" for sure.

Both are exceedingly way out in left field.

I think I can go for that analogy!

 

[DaChaser1]

I took this off the Official Assembly of God website.

In regard to final judgement:

3. Judgment on the basis of works.
a. A judgment day for all (2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 20:12,13).
b. Judgment according to our response to the needs of others (Matthew 25:31–46).

The General Council of the Assemblies of God disapproves of the unconditional
security position which holds that it is impossible for a person once saved to be lost.

IV. Salvation Is Forfeited by Rejecting Christ

God does not let anyone go easily. (See Romans 10:21 where Paul was speaking
of Israel, but the principle applies.) But a believer can be lost if he disregards the
continuing checks of the Holy Spirit and reaches the point where he rejects Jesus as his Savour

The official position of the Assembly God is that justification by faith is ultimately conditioned by works on the day of judgement and that those justified by faith can reject Christ and become lost.

I am not saying all people in the Assembly of God are lost. I am not saying that every assembly of God member holds to their official belief. I am saying that this denomination officially denies that Christ completely and fully satisfied the law's demands against the believer and is saved and thus kept by grace. They believe that the believer can choose to stop believing in Christ and be lost and they believe that a believer can practice sin and be lost.

They do not believe that Christ is the Savior but they believe in a CO-Savior as they believe the believer has the ultimate power to save or damn himself by his own free choice to reject Jesus Christ or to choose live in sin and forfeit salvation by his "bad" works.

They would fit under the label of being 'classical Arminianists!"

Would say that they do indeed have the real gospel/jesus that would have God saving the sinners, but that their sotierology as regarding to this ONE part, of the security of the believer is faulty!

Would say somewhat related in a fashion to those in reformed circles who hold that the Lord can keep His own, but also we have to evidence enough good works/changed life to actually been shown to be the redeemed!

 

[DaChaser1]

It has been my experience that the AOG has been one of the more conservative organizations in the Charismatic movement. Those that push the faith/prosperity/health/wealth etc. gospel are usually aligned with teachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and other such leaders. Their churches are more interdenominational in nature and appeal to a wider audience. Something like "Victory Christian Center" is a typical name.

God is a god that you put in your pocket like a genie that you can pull out at any time and command him to give you the things that you want. You want to be wealthy, command God to give you wealth. You want to have better health, command God to give you better health. You are the one that controls God. You command Him. They take a Scripture out of context to back up this theology, but I can't remember what it is.

I once was in the AoG, and was trained in their theology at their bible school...

They rejected the 'Jesus Only' heresy that arose from an alledged 'revelation" from God regarding misunderstanding of what trinity meant, the Assemblies rejected it!

They also as a group have rejected WoF/health and wealth!

Still see them as being classic Arms, disagree with them on Sotierology model, being a cal, but would see them as teaching a Gospel and jesus that saves!

 

[DHK]

I once was in the AoG, and was trained in their theology at their bible school...

They rejected the 'Jesus Only' heresy that arose from an alledged 'revelation" from God regarding misunderstanding of what trinity meant, the Assemblies rejected it!

They also as a group have rejected WoF/health and wealth!

Still see them as being classic Arms, disagree with them on Sotierology model, being a cal, but would see them as teaching a Gospel and jesus that saves!

That seems like a pretty good assessment. When on the mission field. They were the more evangelistic of the others, as far as the others were concerned. We were overwhelmed with both of the groups that you mentioned--Jesus Only, especially, and then also some of the Wealth/Health & Prosperity gangs. But in spite of their Arminian tendencies the AOG did preach the gospel saves, not baptism; and that the result of salvation was forgiveness of sins, not wealth.

 

[convicted1]

actually, doesn't the AoG teach that one is saved by grace and faith alone in Jesus, but that we still have a second act of grace, they call "HS Baptism", in which one can receiev the "fulness" of the HS to witness, use the Gifts, etc?

Would see them as offshoots if say wesyln holiness churches, nazarene with pentacostal additions!

Arminian in sotierology, with their own 'distinctives" added on!

Gospel would be taught by them, problems is their "add on" not biblical!

Some of the charasmatics state if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. They believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost being in you.

 

[DaChaser1]

Some of the charasmatics state if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. They believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of the Holy Ghost being in you.

jesus only hold to that, also add in the fact "Must" be baptized JUST in name of jesus...

AoG hold that ALL christians spirit filled speak in tongues, christians "merely: indwelt do not!

Both groups saved, just one has 'fulness" of the HS!