Are Ananias and Sapphira in heaven?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Xdisciplex:Oh please!
You are using an old testament verse whose meaning isn't clear at all to prove that a christian who dies sinning goes to hell?...Everybody sins.


HP: Are you suggesting that if a verse is found in the OT that it has been done away with? I wonder why someone did not tell Christ and the Apostle’s that concerning the OT before they so often quoted from it? What is not clear about that verse?

Everybody sins? Let’s start with old Job. God says he was a perfect man. Are you his judge or was God?

Xdisciplex: what do you do if you have a sinful thought and just in this moment you get a stroke and cannot repent anymore?

HP: Why should one that loves God with his whole heart worry about that? If we spend our time growing in our relationship with the Lord by continued obedience, we will not have to worry about that scenario. That sort of question needs to be posed to one believing in a sinning religion. Ask him.

That is like asking, how do you not know that on your death bed you will leave your wife and run off with the charge nurse? I would simply answer you, because I love my wife I am assured that will not happen.

I for one will keep my eyes and heart trained on verses like the following, and make them, with the Lord’s help my ultimate goal and intention.
my meditation.
Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Quote by DHK:”Each "member" of the church at Jerusalem was "saved" and baptized, or else they were not members. They heard the Word of God, were baptized, and the same day added unto the church. And the Lord added unto the church daily such as should be saved.


Quote by HP concerning DHK’s words: “ DHK said they were believers”

DHK: I didn't say that; nor does the Bible say that. You have misrepresented my words.

HP: Pardon me? How did I misrepresent you? Are you now desiring to say they were not believers?

 

[Brother Bob]

Why are they listed?

Why are these sins even listed? I don't understand this. This sounds like you are saved if you don't lie, murder and so on...
Does this mean a christian who lies goes to hell? But do we not all lie sometimes?
So why are these sins listed? Or what if a christian kills somebody? Is he forever lost or what? If not, why does the text say that murderers go to hell?

I have to accept what God says and He says that He will not accept such. I for one do not believe in lying and I know you are going to come back and say I have but I surely hope not, because there will not be any liars in Heaven. But I really think it is telling us how much we need to repent and if death finds us still in our sins we just can't go to Heaven. The two you listed fell dead in their sins so I really don't see how they could of repented.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: However God does calll you a liar, as well as everyone of us.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

HP: You are not God, and you have no right or mandate to say that about anyone unless you have proof that it is true. The verse you mention does not call me a liar in the least. God is not “calling” any man ‘in particular’ a liar in this verse, nor is it a general verse concerning the entire world as you would have it read. Read the verse previous. Ro 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Verse 4 is concerning those that “did not believe” and their unbelief making the faith of God without effect.

 

[Brother Bob]

Liar

DHK: However God does calll you a liar, as well as everyone of us.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

HP: You are not God, and you have no right or mandate to say that about anyone unless you have proof that it is true. The verse you mention does not call me a liar in the least. God is not “calling” any man ‘in particular’ a liar in this verse, nor is it a general verse concerning the entire world as you would have it read. Read the verse previous. Ro 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Verse 4 is concerning those that “did not believe” and their unbelief making the faith of God without effect.

I do not believe that Scripture is calling every man a liar. I believe if you say something opposite to what God says then it calling you a liar. Why would it call you a liar if you were in agreement with God. If it meant every man is a liar then all men would be condemned to Hell.

blessings,

BBob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BBob: I do not believe that Scripture is calling every man a liar.

HP: I can only hope that I misunderstood DHK on this one.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BBob: The two you listed fell dead in their sins so I really don't see how they could of repented.

HP: A very strange way to be rewarded early, I would think.

Have you seen that Dodge commercial where the redneck on the back of the truck unties the tarp which in turn flies back over the windshield of the car behind it? As the car plummets off the cliff, he exclaims, “That can’t be good!” Well, maybe we should use some of his intuitive horse sense in the case of Ananias and Sapphira.

 

[DHK]

HP: You are not God, and you have no right or mandate to say that about anyone unless you have proof that it is true. The verse you mention does not call me a liar in the least. God is not “calling” any man ‘in particular’ a liar in this verse, nor is it a general verse concerning the entire world as you would have it read. Read the verse previous. Ro 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Verse 4 is concerning those that “did not believe” and their unbelief making the faith of God without effect.

I am not God, but I know what God says in his Word.
It says plainly that all have sinned.
All men are liars.
There is not a just man on the earth that knows to do good, and does it not.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Lying is probably the most common sin of mankind. To say that you do not lie is to say that you are deceiving yourself and calling Christ a liar.
DHK

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Lying is probably the most common sin of mankind. To say that you do not lie is to say that you are deceiving yourself and calling Christ a liar.
DHK

HP: Lord, help us.

 

[Brother Bob]

Sin

I agree all sin but not the kind of sin you are talking about. I resent being called a liar and I don't think Jesus called me one. I guess He did before I repented but I don't think He looks down and say look at all my little liars. I tend to lean towards the Scriptue that says there will be no liars in Heaven. May I ask how do you answer that one DHK if you don't mind my asking.

Revelation, chapter 21

Chapter
Book


"27": And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Blessings,

BBob

 

[xdisciplex]

But everybody lies or has lied. Then we are all liars and all go to hell.

 

[xdisciplex]

Strange, I replied but I cannot see my reply.

But everybody lies or has lied. Then we are all liars and all go to hell.

 

[DHK]

Strange, I replied but I cannot see my reply.
But everybody lies or has lied. Then we are all liars and all go to hell.

No man is perfect.
No man is sinless.
No man lives this life free from telling lies.
I am a sinner, always was, always will be.
The difference is: Now I am a sinner saved by grace.
DHK

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Xdisciplex:But everybody lies or has lied. Then we are all liars and all go to hell.

HP: Whatever box you find yourself in, think outside of it. Seriously, have you never heard of forgiveness for “sins that are past?”

 

[xdisciplex]

HP: Whatever box you find yourself in, think outside of it. Seriously, have you never heard of forgiveness for “sins that are past?”

What do you mean? That Jesus only died for some of your sins?

 

[Brother Bob]

No man is perfect.
No man is sinless.
No man lives this life free from telling lies.
I am a sinner, always was, always will be.
The difference is: Now I am a sinner saved by grace.
DHK

I just think about the woman caught in adultery. "go and sin no more". Amen,

Bbob

 

[gekko]

the way i look at it is this:

what does it matter? why dont we focus on our own salvation - and encourage others in the faith instead of pondering energy wastage on matters we obviously aren't fully knowledgable in?

 

[DHK]

I just think about the woman caught in adultery. "go and sin no more". Amen,

Bbob

And she probably did--go, and commit the sin (of adultery) no more.
That doesn't say anything about other sins however. Everything must be taken in its context, and in harmony with the rest of the Bible.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
DHK

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Xdisciplex: What do you mean? That Jesus only died for some of your sins?

HP: Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ, according to Scripture, died for all sins, yet all sins are not forgiven. God has set forth conditions for man to comply with in order to apply His forgiveness to 'sins that are past.' They are initially repentance and faith. Apart from man complying with those conditions, His blood is not applied to cover our sins.

Christ blood built a bridge for the forgiveness of sins which makes forgiveness of ‘sins that are past’ possible under certain conditions, which are again, repentance and faith. No repentance? No forgiveness. “Unless ye repent, ye shall ALL likewise perish.”

It is presumptous, and not according to Scripture, for an individual to believe that God has forgiven sins not in the past but yet in the future apart from repentance for those specific sins. There is not one Scripture that ever states that God will forgive future sins apart from repentance of them. God is no repector of persons. "" Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

This last verse is a warning to any believer concering 'doing despite' the grace of God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Dhk;

And she probably did--go, and commit the sin (of adultery) no more.
That doesn't say anything about other sins however. Everything must be taken in its context, and in harmony with the rest of the Bible.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
DHK

Well, i guess we will have to agree to disagree but you added the word "adultery" when the Lord said "go and sin no more". Again, I am not saying we don't sin but not those kind of sins that will send you to hell, not according to me but according to God Himself.

Bless,

BBob